Talk:Chris and religion

Do something about Romans
It's a nice quote but it's too big. I tried incorporating it into the article but it didn't look very good, something should be done with it to make the quotes section a bit smaller. --Thorgnzorrg 18:11, 23 August 2010 (PDT)

To do

 * Chris's warped version of Christianity (homosexuality = bad, lesbianism = good, sex before marriage = okay).
 * his twisted double standard of morality (anyone else lies = "vicious lies and slander", Chris outright lies = "half-truths"; also how Adam Stackhouse cheating = bad, Chris cheating = okay).
 * God's influence on his dreams
 * how Chris is guilty of all seven deadly sins

God is a Troll
If we assume God exists and it was God who talked to Chris could it be argued that God is trolling chris as well?

Split
I'll entertain the motion of splitting off GodJesus into its own page, since Chris has invoked God specifically in much of his work, which can be considered a separate thing to how Chris views religion, in addition to GodJesus being in the comic and a popular meme amongst trolls. We can document all the times Chris has invoked GodJesus in various media.

Thoughts? --Champthom 12:07, 2 September 2009 (CEST)

I guess go on. --Sonijew 11:11, 3 September 2009 (CEST)

That could actually be really funny, thinking about it. Go for it! --Jump 18:36, 30 October 2009 (CET)

Sounds like a good plan. --AdderCress 23:55, 3 December 2009 (CET)

I don't know why no-one ever followed through on this idea. I'd just like to say I support this if the topic is still open. --Edward 16:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

The Seven Deadly Sins
The seven deadly sins aren't really 7 specific sins so much as seven categories that cover all sins. In other words, every wrongdoing is motivated, in one way or another By Greed, Sloth, Lust, Pride, Wrath, Gluttony, or Envy. So whether it's lying to save face (pride) raging against guys with girlfriends (Wrath, Lust, Envy) or basically anything else Chris does at all, it all goes back to one of the deadly sins.

That said, I doubt there's any need to actually include that in the article. Making this whole paragraph moot, I guess. whatever.--Beat 05:38, 15 October 2009 (CEST)


 * Apparently someone doesn't like the Seven Deadly sins portion of this page much at all. Does the article really need it?  I mean, all it does it repeat the point that Chris wallows in wrongdoing. --Beat 19:20, 19 November 2009 (CET)


 * Eh, I vote we leave it in. They're a fundamental part of certain sects of Christianity, and it's an interesting analysis. NoVu 00:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

10 Commandments
Now that's better. I'm half-tempted to delete the 7 deadly sins part completely now that we have this. To whoever wrote it, you're awesome. --Beat 03:28, 11 December 2009 (CET)

Thanks. :^D Tyranogre 06:04, 11 December 2009 (CET)

In the "Honor thy father and thy mother": part of the 10 Commandments it says that Chris called his father a bastard once and links to "Bob Walks In Aftermath". Having read it though it sounds to me like he could have been calling the troll a bastard and not his father. Any thoughts? Lunachu 19:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Levitical Laws
Also, Saint Paul making a new Covenant; tehcnically, he doesn't have that authority, plus the mythology has Jesus saying in Mattew 5:17-19 http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/5.html#17 that all Old Testament laws still apply.--Xavier orona 02:06, 21 November 2010 (PST)

Removal
I've seen a lot of complaints about this page, namely the 7 Deadly Sins section. I swore I addressed this before, maybe I did elsewhere but I personally believe that the Seven Deadly Sins isn't exclusively a Catholic thing. That is, I think if you're breaking the 7 deadly sins, you're not being a very good Christian regardless of denomination. Catholics might be the ones who have this formalized, but I think that if you're lazy, slothful, vengeful, lustful, etc. I think it can be said you're not a very good Christian and that this guideline shouldn't be limited to Catholics. I say this because I've seen comments who think we're applying Catholic standards to Chris or somehow arguing Catholicism is better and I think that's silly.

HOWEVER, I still removed it, but not for those reasons. Nor did I remove it for the complaint that people who read this article thinking that because Chris is a hypocrite, he must be Satan incarnate (if you read the article and get that impression, its not our fault you're as autistic as Chris). Rather, I considered what Old meme said in a section below in that the 10 Commandments should be a sufficient standard measure we can all agree on in determining Chris's Christianity. I think someone reading it should get the idea that Chris isn't a very good Christian.

I also removed the bit about the Levitican laws. From what I understand, that part is only applicable to Jews. I've talked to Orthodox Jews and they'll tell me all that stuff is only applicable to them, and if you do a bit of research into Christian theology you'll find out that a majority of Christians believe that Jesus superseded all the stuff about mixing fibers in clothing, not eating pork, that sort of thing. The except, a Jew would say, are the Noachide laws which are the most base laws that apply to all humanity and "sexual immorality" (which would include homosexuality in standard interpretations) is one of them.--Champthom 06:07, 29 February 2012 (PST)


 * I'd vote to put it back. Third point: this isn't a site about the (in)accuracy of religion, and the many many MANY cotnradictory beliefs and interpertations from the countless modern sects of christians/jews have on their versions of the origional oral mythologies; what Christians belive the bible means and what it actually origonally says are entirely different things. Second Point: while a standard measure does provide a good baseline, I felt that the site was always about how beyond the baseline Chris goes. While one is more likeley to violate the nuances than the general rules, those sections had a lot of good work put into them, and show through a thurough scope what a thurough failure Chris is. Lastly, on the first point, while the Seven are officially only Catholic dogma (as are, for example, the Trinity, the Saints, Exorcism/spirits, and Mary also being prayed to), they are also common knowledge and commonly understood. For example, Mitochondrial Eve and Parasite Eve (the game), neither are Abrahamic, but both refrence Eve of Genesis, because of the widely understood point of the term. The relevance of which is that while it may be Catholic, that doesn't matter, because it's just as valid a guideline as the Ten Commandments, both of them just being religious edicts supposedly inspired by God, that in all probability are strictly of human origin. --Xavier orona 21:18, 14 April 2012 (PDT)
 * I second that vote, aside from the points, Xavier made, there is also the basic reason that Chris is actually guilty of breaking all of the deadly sins. I also believe that it'll make the article a bit more interesting as well. The Levitical Laws, however, can stay gone IMO, those were just speculation at best. ElRodrigo 07:56, 2 June 2012 (PDT)

Possession?
christfag here i believe chris might be possessed or demonically oppressed having cast demons out of people before he acts very similar to them ultrajinx 17:31, 20 November 2009 (CET)

of course if this is true and if some one at his church has half a brain and recognizes this expect the saga to be over very quickly (this is just a theory after all) ultrajinx 17:36, 20 November 2009 (CET)


 * I'm also a Christian, but I really don't think there's much evidence here for demonic possession. Chris strikes me as just a terrible person on the whole, not a terrible person the devil is controlling.--Beat 17:56, 20 November 2009 (CET)


 * The devil is wasting his time if he's controlling Chris. --T K 19 18:54, 20 November 2009 (CET)

but if he is truly born again then he can't be possessed only oppressed ultrajinx 15:32, 21 November 2009 (CET)

the only reason i started thinking about this was when in one of the many chats he mentions how he hears things like "chris is gay" ultrajinx 04:16, 22 November 2009 (CET)


 * I think that's more a case of self-denial or possible schizophrenia. No need to insert something silly like "demonic possession". Of course, maybe I'm a little biased against the idea, being atheist, but the symptoms are also right in line with the possibilities I mentioned, and my suggestions are things we actually know to exist, rather than a (fairly archaic) religious mere. NoVu 00:05, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Other Religions?
Should we document Chris's opinions on religions other than his own? Unfortunately, there's not much to go by, save a few Mumble chats and recent mailbag responses, but he seems tolerant of other people's beliefs (although this could be attributed to his willing ignorance of everything outside Virginia). --AdderCress 00:00, 4 December 2009 (CET)

Thanks, Dkaien. --AdderCress 21:35, 4 December 2009 (CET)
 * That's definitely going to be hard since Chris is unfamiliar with any non-Christian religion. Hell, he doesn't really know the difference between Catholics and Protestants.

Chris said in the mailbag that he agrees with all of Fred Nile's views, and Fred Nile is apparently quite anti-Muslim. Make of that what you will. --sonichuis44 07:51, 21 December 2009 (CET)

Source?
Has Chris ever actually been asked why he believes that there is pain and suffering if there is a loving God? The page suggests he has, but I can't find any source for it. --Mekka 03:22, 15 December 2009 (CET)

Reincarnation
Right here.

Chris's religion is now basically just a mishmash of every faith he's ever heard of, with a good helping of shit he just plain made up.--Beat 07:20, 21 December 2009 (CET)

Afterlife
So I wrote a little bit about Chris's stance on the hereafter, and how it really doesn't have anything in common with Christianity. I just kinda tacked it onto the end of GodJesus, because I couldn't really think of anywhere else it would fit properly.

Pretty much the entire idea of Christianity is that Jesus saves, and that it's impossible to save ourselves no matter how many good deeds we do. It's weird, considering he bases so much of his identity on it, but Chris really isn't a Christian at all.--Beat 08:26, 3 January 2010 (CET)

I think it's possible that he actually doesn't give a damn about Christianity; and that he follows it for his own personal gain. If he ignores most of what Christians believe, and how he's selfish as fuck when it comes to referencing GODJEBUS (Like that time he mentioned how God would send the trolls to hell if they didn't listen to him, for example) then I would assume that Chris really doesn't care much

Here's a thought: What if Christianity turned out to be right, and after he dies, Chris went to hell? Can you imagine his reaction? Oh the hilarity. --Edward 16:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I promise you he would say God is trolling him and then bore Satan with his comics. Admiral Klank 01:09, 19 September 2010 (PDT)

Issue 10 page 48
So, we have a hedgehog kneeling in prayer before some sort of altar, a stone rolling away from a tomb by itself, and hyper Sonichu, in a church window, assuming the pose Christ had when he died on the cross. Chris just made Jesus Christ an orange Homophobic hedgehog. I'll try and add this to the main article when I'm done raging, because honestly, this is blasphemy on levels I didn't think Chris was capable of.--Beat 05:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I just saw this and... like they say: you think you've seen Chris hit the lowest, then he ends up outdoing himself.--Blazer 06:11, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The worst part is that that page is stained with something-or-other. --OFSheep 02:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a bit about Sonichu's apparent new Messianic role, feel free to add/edit/delete if you think it sucks, as up to this point my edits have been mostly minor typo corrections Magic8Ball 12:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You done good Magic8Ball. You done good.--Beat 23:08, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Satanism Comparison?
Or would Chris the Shaman cover most of the satanic-like things he's done, especially that fucked up attempt to brainwash us into hating Asperchu instead of Sonichu? --CWCAttack 00:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Please remember that we are talking about Chris here. He's pulling tons of stuff out without a hint of afterthought. At worst, he will ask pardon to GosJesus and everything will be well since he's forgiven. Griffintown 01:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think Chris the shaman covers it well enough. Also, the whole Backmasking thing was really more of a failed attempt at a subliminal message than a cry to Satan.
 * Of course, we should still call it a satanic message because that's funnier.--Beat 23:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Editing the Jackie e-mails right now, groups 16-17, Jackie makes multiple good points on how Chris is, in fact, exactly how a Satanist would act.--Xavier orona 02:02, 21 November 2010 (PST)

Works or Faith
To be accurate, the Bible is pretty contradictory on faith saving you alone or the works saving you, and many Christians believe the concept of faith alone to be Satanic. So maybe the Christians Chris is around believe that. JamieTyler 22:35, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is correct. "Protestant theology explicitly states that the salvation of one's soul is based completely on one's faith" is nothing like true and only people like Jack Chick are crazy enough to take it to its logical conclusion (that it's fine and just for Eyebrows McRapington to confess and accept Jesus one second before he dies and go to heaven, while a man who spends his entire life being a perfect human being but doesn't accept Jesus gets tossed into a fiery pit). James 2 is all about how "faith without works is dead" and Rev 20:13 says that in the end the dead will be "judged every man according to their works." The apologists will say these are works of faith, but that still means you have to actually do shit rather than just believe. Fact is, Paul (whose letters form a good chunk of the New Testament) believed salvation was by faith alone, James believed it was by faith and good works and John the Divine seems to have thought it was works alone.


 * Granted, Chris' "works not faith" attitude doesn't apply to certain brands of Christianity, but there's plenty who share that belief; for example, because it deals with the thorny problem of almost everyone who has ever lived going to hell no matter how good they were as people. Ted Van Gruder 07:18, 22 January 2012 (PST)

The phrase "GodJesus"
Is this the only time Chris has used it? Was it a one-off like niggo or pedofork?
 * 1) please sign your comments (it's four ~ in a row), 2) lots of things Chris says are one off, but they stick to trolls because they find them amusing. --Champthom 17:32, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

The Simpsons
An odd little coincidence here; I was watching a Simpsons haloween special recently. They're called Treehouse of Horror episodes. They do these non canonical horror stories. Theres one in particular that sees homer killing celebrities for money from advertisement firms. It makes more sense in context. Well it ends with the celebrities coming down from heaven and trying to kill Homer, and before they kill himm he asks what the one true faith is, to which Krusty the Klown replies 'Its a combination of Voodoo and Methodist.' Worth mentioning or not? --Edward 17:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's pure coincidence. I have yet heard Chris call himself a Methodism or any relation with Voodoo. If he mention it in the future, the comment would be added. Griffintown 18:19, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * His current church is Methodist. --T K 19 19:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Good, we are half-way there. At the second he mention Voodoo, the info will fit in the article. Griffintown 19:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "Despite his professed Christianity, Chris's beliefs and behaviors almost tend towards a sort of shamanistic mindset, where God is a force to be controlled; and the universe can be influenced by various mystic rituals." --T K 19 20:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice link but as long as Chris don't use the term "VooDoo" or make a direct allusion to the said scene, there's no ground to add it on the article. Griffintown 20:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Trinity vs. GodJesus
Trinitarianism refers to three personas in one being. The Father (Jehovah) is not the same as the Son (Jesus), but both are personas of God. Nor is the holy spirit the same as the Father or Son, but it too is a persona of God. In the past, when explaining the Trinity concept, I've drawn an analogy to one person with three user accounts on a computer. Chris's "GodJesus" could be thought of as not unlike the Trinity, except that the holy spirit isn't regarded as a persona. Am I right? --Tepples 17:41, 19 June 2011 (PDT)

Different approach?
Seems pretty pointless trying to interpret Chris's beliefs in terms of Christianity, or pointing out that his beliefs contradict Christianity, since we all know anyway that he just believes whatever he finds convenient or appealing at the time.

It makes more sense imo to just have this page as a reference on all his prejudices and beliefs concerning the various religions, as well as his interactions with their various institutions. Then we can treat his own religious beliefs as a separate beast, either at another page or a section in this page.

I'd be happy to do the work if this idea gets the thumbs up. --Corezzio 20:55, 20 June 2011 (PDT)
 * The thing is, Chris claims to be a devout Christian and frequently invokes Christianity for various reasons. This is more "Chris and his religion" than Chris and religion in general. I think with any "Chris and" article, it needs to be considered a possible subsection of the Christian Weston Chandler page - that is, this could easily be one, very large section of that article, but obviously we have a separate page so we can go more in-depth. But if it was part of that page, then we'd be focusing on Chris and his religion, would we not? Someone who would be reading that article would try to get an understanding of Chris's religion, which I think is rightly the focus of this article. In other words, people reading the article will want to know "What are Chris's religious beliefs?" rather than "How has Chris interacted with organized religions?" The former gives us some worldview behind Chris's thought process, the later is more sperg fodder (and I avoid using the term - not to say that one is a sperg if they want to know how Chris has interacted with other religions, merely that one is more likely interested in someone's beliefs that are religious rather than opinions on religious institutions).


 * Yes, Chris's beliefs are self serving in many ways but he identifies with Christianity and I think it makes sense to use that as a lens for the page. Furthermore, we have more documentation of him interacting with Christianity than other religions, so that's another reason why Christianity is so predominant.


 * Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you had in mind but these are my thoughts based on what I think you're getting at.--Champthom 06:11, 21 June 2011 (PDT)

Is it necessary?
I was considering adding Dante Alighieri's circles of hell. But a huge part of the article is listing Chris' sins. Would it be beating a dead horse to do it? Especially since seven of the circles are essentially the seven deadly sins.Theiselybros 08:48, 10 July 2011 (PDT)
 * Sounds unnecessary to me. You'd just be repeating the seven deadly sins part and Inferno was just Bible fanfiction anyway. --T K 19 09:52, 10 July 2011 (PDT)
 * It has potential. However, I don't really think that he's guilty of treachery (9th Circle) Hater665511 12:39, 19 January 2012 (PST)
 * he has been guilty of treachery with several of his sweethearts. promising his virginity to more than one at a time is one example
 * Yes, but almost all the treachery in the inferno lead to someone getting killed. Chris, to my knowledge, hasn't done that. Hater665511 14:24, 19 January 2012 (PST)
 * I have to agree with Old Meme, this is probably not necessary to the article. Though I would like to point out that Chris's "treachery" lead to the death of Ivy; just saying. --4Macie 08:29, 24 January 2012 (PST)
 * This page has enough irrelevant sperging about Chris's sins as it is. I personally think that anything beyond the ten commandments section was pushing it, and they were actually IN the bible. I don't see any need to pointlessly extend this page further. --Old meme 07:55, 24 January 2012 (PST)


 * Not to be a dick, but the Seven Deadly Sins aren't technically in the bible. It's a Catholic thing, and Chris is Protestant, so I don't think that that nor the part about the Seven Heavenly Virtues is necessary. One man's opinion. Love, Giantgroundsloth 21:02, 28 January 2012 (PST)

Breaking all Ten Commandments
Does anyone find this a bit unneccessary? I think the article without this is still enough to prove that Chris isn't a good Christian since this "Breaking all Ten Commandments" part looks "trying too hard" and forced especially the "Thou shalt not steal" part. Alan Pardew 03:39, 6 September 2012 (PDT)
 * Why, yes. I do think it is unnecessary my good sir, and you would be doing the Lord's work if you removed it. In future I also recommend being more take-charge with this stuff. If you see cancer in the pages, remove it, and justify your choice in the summary. If someone takes issue with your edits then they'll revert them. Then you can either accept their argument or tell them why they're being a faggot. If you'd just removed this yourself I don't think anyone would have objected. You are right though, this section can go and nothing will be missed. --Old meme 02:46, 7 September 2012 (PDT)

Is a complete re-write in order?
Chris-chan's religious beliefs have changed significantly since the Classic era; no more is he a lukewarm Family Guy caricature of a Baptist. Self-apotheosis now dominates Chris' beliefs, which seem only recently to have assimilated his older beliefs in a bizarre form mutilated beyond recognition. Given the recent announcements about consulting with Jesus, it may be wise to wait until we have a clearer picture of what Chris-chan actually believes in 2019. Something like this article in its current form should be kept as a record for posterity, perhaps in a separate GodJesus article, or even Classic Chris and religion, but emphasising it in the main Chris and... article is misleading, unless Chris does revert in near future to his earlier form. ChanOfTartary (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Maybe we could split the article into sections for Past Beliefs and Current Beliefs, similar to the Homos page. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
 * After months of stress, *sigh*, I have got about at last to doing this. ChanOfTartary (talk) 22:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Splitting Neo-Spiritual Christianity
Should Neo-Spiritual Christianity and its subsection Cosmology be split into its own page? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2022 (UTC)