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Chris and religion

2012-11-06T18:16:05Z

Negi Springfield: /* Concept of God (or: GodJesus) */

{{Articleofthenow}}
{{quote|When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.|1 Cor 13:11,<ref>[http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm]</ref> on what Chris <s>has failed to</s> will never do.}}

{{quote|my CURRENT church can help me a LOT better than any "professional"|Chris not understanding how professional help works<ref>[[Vivitheg's AIM chat]]</ref>}}
[[Image:SonichuRosechuReligious.jpg|thumb|right|Sonichu and Rosechu recall Joseph's story of "forgiveness" prior to Rosechu brutally faceraping [[Jason Kendrick Howell]].]]
'''The religion of [[Christian Weston Chandler]]''' is a complicated topic because his stated religious convictions often differ from his actual, peculiar beliefs about God, sinfulness, and the nature of good and evil.

That Chris professes a belief in Christianity completes the general stereotype of the [[naïve]] [[Bob Chandler|hillbilly]] idiot who thinks that citing divine authority is the way to win arguments about things he doesn't understand. With religion, like anything else, Chris only hears what he wants to hear. For example, he accepts his religion's teachings condemning [[homos]]exuality ''yet'' ignores the fact that it also forbids pre-marital [[sex]], [[Anger|hatred]], [[Race|intolerance]], [[Nudes|pornography]], and [[Mass debating|masturbation]]. This dissonance is exemplified in his reaction to the news that [[PandaHalo]] had been raped and impregnated by [[Clyde Cash]]: he actively encouraged her to spend time with her rapist because a child should know and be raised by both of its parents... shortly after encouraging her to get an abortion.<ref>[[IRC (21 January 2009)]]</ref>

Chris's narrow view of the world requires that [[Sonichu (character)|Sonichu]] and [[Rosechu]] share his religious beliefs, despite the fact that they also regard Chris as their almighty creator and father.

Regardless of his religion, Chris believes he has received [[Dreams|multiple visions from God]].

==Denomination==
{{quote|And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, [[Julie|fornication]], [[Twin Falling Towers|wickedness]], [[Kacey|covetousness]], [[Don't Mess With Me|maliciousness]]; full of [[Infinitely high boyfriend factor|envy]], [[Death threats|murder]], [[Mass debating|debate]], [[Lies|deceit]], [[Chris and anger|malignity]]; whisperers, [[Autism Tutorial Extra|backbiters]], haters of God, [[Aspergers (CWCipedia article)|despiteful]], [[Chris and his ego|proud]], [[ShecameforCWC.JPG|boasters]], inventors of [[Sonichu|evil things]], [[Bob Chandler|disobedient to parents]], [[Naive|without understanding]], covenantbreakers, [[Hanky-panky|without natural affection]], [[Chris and remorse|implacable]], [[Sonichu Special 4|unmerciful]]: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which [[For Julie's Eyes Only|commit such things are worthy of death]], not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.|Romans 1:28-32, on Chris}}

[[Image:CHRISjesuss.jpg|thumb|right||Program from Chris's baptism]]
At some time in his youth, Chris was baptized in an unspecified [[Wikipedia:Methodism|Methodist]] church.<ref>[[IRC (28 December 2008)]]</ref> The first church he and his parents are known to have attended is [[Grace Baptist Church]], a small congregation in [[Charlottesville]] that launched in [[2000]].<ref>http://cvilletomorrow.typepad.com/charlottesville_tomorrow_/2007/12/grace_baptist.html</ref> In [[2008]] he was; under [[Nudes|mysterious circumstances]], forced to leave that community, at which time he began attending [[Wesley Memorial United Methodist Church]].

"Wesley Mem" is located near the [[University of Virginia]] and has an unusually liberal theology; the common conclusion among [[trolls]] is that congregations more in line with Chris's opinions of [[homos]] are equally intolerant of him, so he had to come here. The doctrinal differences between the [[Wikipedia:Southern Baptist|Southern Baptist]] and Methodist denominations are probably too subtle for Chris to concern himself with, and he likely does not identify with any particular denomination of Christianity beyond simply being Protestant.

Chris has no connection to Catholicism, which he seems to regard as a benign but alien practice. In his comics, he assigns it to a minor character, [[Angelica Rosechu]], whose faith doesn't practically differentiate her from the rest of the inhabitants of [[CWCville]] - she's still as much of a slut as the rest of the [[Rosechu (species)|Rosechus]]. Also, her home congregation is called "Samuel Memorial United Christian Church," which is about the least likely name for a Roman Catholic church Chris could have come up with.

[[PandaHalo]]'s persona was designed to be devoutly Roman Catholic specifically to confound Chris's desire for pre-marital sex with contraception. Faced with this challenge, Chris tried to argue that God really does allows premarital sex because his pastor said so. Members of the same religion often differ on the finer points of God's will because ultimately there is no objective point of reference to settle the dispute. Chris cannot comprehend this because to him his beliefs ''are'' that point of reference; [[Autism|you either share his beliefs or you're receiving bad information]].

==Concept of God (or: GodJesus)==
[[Image:CWCletter.jpg|thumb|left|Chris invokes God and Jesus, saying they told him that [[Blanca]] is real. Proof that God and Jesus are on the [[trolls]]' side.]]
[[Image:SchuComic10P09.jpg|thumb|right|God and Jesus ('sup?) tell Chris he is meant to be with [[Ivy]].]]
[[Image:Jesusbot.jpg|thumb|right|This is what Chris actually believes.]]

Chris has a fundamental belief in an omnipotent, benevolent God; beyond this, he also accepts Jesus Christ as the son of God and the savior of mankind. He's reluctant to mention God without also including Jesus, perhaps out of some sense that he must stress his specifically Christian notion of God. In effect, Chris frequently refers to "God and Jesus" (or "GodJesus"<ref>[[Matthew 5:27, CWC Confessions]]</ref><ref>[[CWC Update 9 April 2009]]</ref>) as if they were some sort of [[wikipedia:Binitarianism|Binity]], unlike the mainstream Christian concept of the [[Wikipedia:Trinity|Trinity]], which states that God Himself exists as three "persons" or expressions in one Being.

Being the unparalleled study in [[ego]]tism he is, Chris seems to view God as a more of a metaphor for his own will than a supreme being to whom he is subject. To Chris, God will overlook (or doesn't care about) his misdeeds, but will become as enraged as Chris over those of others, especially when they are against him. Case in point, the ''fact'' that Chris cheated in the [[PaRappa the Rapper contest]] is not nearly as important as the ''suspicion'' that [[Adam Stackhouse]] did.

Chris believes God has a special interest in his own life, which would be consistent with Western monotheism, except that he also thinks God has nothing better to do than attend to him, and him alone. In his worldview, God's primary purpose is to arrange events so that he is happy, and punish those who make him unhappy. This nearly the exact opposite of Christianity which states that man is to serve God. He is commonly observed saying things like "with God (and Jesus) on my side I will... [insert anything Chris fails at]." He often invokes the wrath of God in his [[Death threats|infantile threats]], and is oblivious to the fact that God has yet to back him up on any of them.

Much like the [[Wikipedia:Ruhollah Khomeini|Ayatollah Khomeini]], Chris attributes most of his motivations to commands given to him directly from GodJesus in [[Dreams|visions]]. His exact beliefs concerning these prophetic dreams are difficult to pin down, but the most rational interpretation is that Chris dreams about something he'd like to do, then wakes up and decides it was God telling him to do it. In Chris's mind, each vision is simultaneously a directive to do something and proof that it will happen no matter what occurs. For instance, after Chris had a vision about fathering a [[Crystal Weston Chandler (daughter)|daughter]], he decided he was required to actively [[Love Quest|make that happen]] while also assuring himself that [[Virgin with rage|failure]] was impossible. When Chris was being accused of [[Chris and race|racism]] for insisting that he can only date white women, he justified this by arguing that prophesied daughter must be white.

Subsequent visions from God have supposedly confirmed that [[Blanca]], [[PandaHalo]] and [[Ivy]] were to be the mother of [[Daughter|Chris's child]], despite the fact that each of these women subsequently turned out to be [[trolls]]. This proves that God, if he exists, is either not responsible for Chris's supposedly prophetic dreams, or is having a [[Laughs Under Lucricities|laugh at his expense]].

Chris also believes that if he confesses his sins to GodJesus he will be forgiven. Private confessions directly to God are not uncommon in Protestantism, but generally it's assumed that the confessor is doing so to genuinely atone for mistakes. However, Chris abuses the purpose of confession so that he can commit whatever wrongs he wants and then wipe the slate clean with his "confession." For example, Chris made [[To Clyde and Jack|a video]] in which he suggested that [[Clyde Cash]] and [[Jack Thaddeus]] commit suicide so that they can burn in Hell forever. He later drew them doing just that in [[Sonichu (comic)|his comic]]. Just one day after the comic appearance, Chris answered a fan letter asking why he had been wishing suicide upon them, and pointing out that such a wish conflicts with his Christian beliefs. Chris responded that he had "confessed of that to God and Jesus, and they have forgiven [him] on that."<ref>[[Mailbag 33#Chris demanded suicide under "reasonable hatred"]]</ref> One of two things happened: either Chris wished for their deaths in the video, asked for forgiveness, then gleefully drew it happening afterward anyway, or he waited until he'd finally got done saying his piece, then conveniently offered up his confession right after getting everything out of his system. Either way, such a confession is highly disingenuous.

Traditional theology has long dealt with the so-called "problem of pain" in books Chris is unlikely to read anytime soon. It's strange that despite Chris's strong belief that GodJesus is backing him up on his [[Love Quest]], that God imparts on him such [[stress]] and trolling. He seems to believe that the way prayer works is the same way a little kid learns to get what they want: by saying "please." To Chris, prayer is apparently like ordering a pizza, and as long as you pray for something, it'll show up for you exactly how you ordered it, a principle that applies to base and material things as much as spiritual guidance.
{{clear}}

==Afterlife==
{{Quote|For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.|Ephesians 2:8-10, on the place of good deeds in the Christian faith.}}
{{Quote|Like most people; our souls leave our bodies, we end up in Heaven or Hell depending on our deeds/misdeeds, and possibly Reincarnation.|Chris,<ref>[[Mailbag 30#Questions]]</ref>}} {{clear}}

While the idea of good deeds causing someone to go to heaven and bad deeds sending them to hell is not an uncommon one, Protestant theology explicitly states that the salvation of one's soul is based completely on one's faith. In general this teaching means that one's prior sins (no matter how terrible) can be forgiven by God, and that members of the faith should try to live righteous lives not because it will get them into heaven, but simply because doing so is morally the right thing to do. The salvation of one's soul through faith is essentially the single point upon which nearly every Protestant denomination is based.

Like everything else, Chris fails at this basic concept, stating that one goes to heaven or hell based completely on personal actions. He personally believes he will go to heaven because he's done "[[Common Questions#Answered 01/01/10|a lot of good deeds]]". Likewise, he feels that [[homos]] are almost certainly bound to go to hell, and need to turn straight to "[[Mailbag 18#In which Chris believes he has magic powers (srsly)|better their chances of going to heaven]]". He has also stated numerous times that he feels [[Clyde Cash|various]] [[Jack Thaddeus|trolls]] are bound for hell for making fun of people over the internet. He has suggested that they [[To Clyde and Jack.MOV|commit suicide]] so that they might receive their eternal punishment faster.

Additionally, Chris [[Mailbag 21#Chris gets a call from The Doctor|believes in the concept of reincarnation]], common in Hinduism and other Eastern religions, though he has yet to offer any criteria for what might cause someone to be reincarnated. While reincarnation was and to some extent is still embraced by a few Christian sects, Chris himself realizes none of this.

==Concept of sin==
{{quote|But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...|Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:44}}

{{quote|I PRAY TO GOD AND JESUS TO [[Death threats|KILL]] [[JASON KENDRICK HOWELL]]|Chris, [[Sonichu Girls]] Forum}}

{{quote|HAVE A GOD DAMN HEART ATTACK RIGHT NOW, THIS VERY MOMENT YOU READ THIS MESSAGE, YOU GOD DAMN BITCHING WHORE!|E-mail from Chris to [[Vivian]]}}

Other than vehemently opposing [[homos]], [[trolls]] and [[jerkops]], Chris seems to have little notion about the nature of sin and evil except that people who do things he doesn't like should go to hell. This is completely at odds with the part of Christian philosophy that states all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and anyone who repents his sins will be redeemed.

Chris's understanding of Christian theology is extremely limited, and he does not seem to know anything about the Bible (although he apparently owns a copy of the New International Version). His homophobia had nothing to do with the prohibitions on homosexuality in the Old Testament, which he was unaware of until he heard about it from ''[[Family Guy]]''. His [[Fapcup|aversion to "spilling his seed"]] and his [[recycling|dedication to the unborn]] have absolutely no basis in Biblical passages condemning sexual immorality and abortion.

When Chris gave in to temptation and cybered with [[Vanessa Hudgens]] in violation of his monogamous relationship with [[Ivy]], Chris made [[Captain's Log, Stardate April 17th, 2009|a big production]] out of confessing his sin and seeking forgiveness. This suggests that he previously had little to no experience with the idea of repenting sins before God.

==Chris and Forgiveness==

A major tenet in most any religion you can think of is the act of forgiveness. Unfortunately for Chris, he has [[Autism|no idea of what forgiveness really is]], and will often hold grudges against [[Clyde Cash|anybody]] [[Michael Snyder|he]] feels has wronged him, [[100_2178|sometimes even for years]]. While some may argue that he did show [[Curse-ye-ha-me-ha_Retraction|forgiveness]] in a few of his videos, even more will argue that such things were done either under an [[China|ulterior motive]] or is meaningless as [[Facebook#Maniacal_Laughter_from_Who_now.3F_Oh.2C_wait.2C_It_Is_ME.21_.3E8D|he goes on to curse and scream at them later on]].

[[This is how the Trial went|During his trial]] on July 10th, 2012, it was discovered that Michael Snyder made a plea that Chris be shown leniency, as a felony was a life-changing event that could really harm Chris in the long run. This comes despite Chris [[The_Game_Place#Chris.27s_attitude_at_The_GAMe_PLACe|scaring his customers away]], ''(while he was still allowed in the store)'', [[Michael_Snyder_is_ColdHearted_and_Mean#Video|shouting racist slurs at him]], [[Autism_Tutorial_Part_3|making threats to burn down the store]], and [[28 October 2011|injuring him with his car]]. This was probably the most extraordinary form of forgiveness that anyone has ever shown towards Chris, even after the latter's horrible actions. Chris' show of gratitude was to go against all common sense and commit ''public slander'' in a court of law:

{{quote|I don't think that [[Michael Snyder|thieving liar]] deserves a [[Monthly Tugboat|red cent]]!|Chris, [[This is how the Trial went]]}}

Long story short, Chris does not forgive, nor does he forget.

==Chris the Shaman==
{{quote|The spirit of Patti will have his soul for dinner tonight! She will be haunting your nightmares, Mr. Leary.|Chris, [[Asperchu is a Horrendous Joke]]}}

{{quote|1) "Curse-Ye-Ha-Me-Ha" - Placing Bad Luck and Extreme Misfortune on all of those who give me grief or hate.<br> 2) "Forgiveness Blessing" - Cures all ailments of virus or physical qualities.<br> 3) "Hono" - Makes Gays, regardless of gender, become Straight; NEVER to be gay EVER Again.<br> 4) "Peaceful Teaching" - Quells all disputes and disagreements within a 1000 mile radius, and turns all weaponry into dust.<br> 5) "Come to me, my Women" - Locates and attracts 18 to 30-year old single women within a 5-mile radius.|Chris's terrifyingly insane list of "spells", [[Mailbag 23#Chris and the dark arts|Mailbag 23]]}}
[[Image:Ickeriss medallions.jpg|thumb|right||The Medallions serve as Chris's connection to the spirit realm.]]

{{quote|I pray the soul of my father gives you all nightmares|Chris on using the spirits of the dead}}

Despite his professed Christianity, Chris's beliefs and behaviors almost tend towards a sort of shamanistic mindset, where God is a force to be controlled and the universe can be influenced by various mystic rituals. In Chris's case, he seems to believe that his tirades and tantrums will somehow affect the trolls who torment him. His attacks on the [[Clown Doll]], for instance, are a metaphorical threat, but also suggest an attempt at somehow literally harming the trolls through [[Wikipedia:sympathetic magic|sympathetic magic]], like a voodoo doll. He views his revenge against his enemies in the comic or in ''[[Soul Calibur]] III'' as being equivalent to actual revenge, rather than simply venting.

The world of [[CWCville]] is also a spirit realm, where Chris is almighty and can create and shape it as he pleases due to his power of "creativity". It exists outside, but parallel, to the real world, and sometimes Chris seems to honestly believe that it's a real place, even if it's just imaginary. This idea of the spirit realm became more valid when, in a [[Asperchu is a Horrendous Joke|video]], Chris claimed that the soul of his [[Patti Chandler|dead dog]] (now [[Patti-Chan|living in CWCville]]) would devour Alec Benson Leary's soul and haunt his [[dreams]].

While Chris has used the [[Curse-ye-ha-me-ha]] in reality, he never took it too seriously, at least until he used it on [[Liquid Chris]] in a video. With the "kidnapping" of Liquid, he then realized that he had "the power" to actually curse people. He also developed a new ability to bless people via the [[Curse-ye-ha-me-ha Retraction|Forgiveness Blessings]] skill. He honestly seems to believe that these powers are real, even stating in one video that if it works, then he knows he has "the power." GaoGaiGar fans then promptly wanted to hit Chris for his abuse of [[Wikipedia:The_King_of_Braves_GaoGaiGar_glossary#.22THE_POWER.22_and_Jupiter-X|ZA POWER]]. Chris later stated in a music video that if people antagonize him, they will be cursed, but if you're TRUE and HONEST, you will receive blessings.

[[Image:thoushaltnotsufferacwctolive.JPG|thumb|left||Thou shalt not suffer a CWC to live.]]
Chris ought to be aware that his sorcery is not merely atypical of a Christian, but in fact explicitly proscribed by his faith. [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=galatians%205:19-20&version=KJV Galatians 5:19-20] lists witchcraft as one of the more blatant acts of sin, whilst in the Old Testament, [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+22%3A18&version=KJV Exodus 22:18] commands "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". That's right, there's a Biblical mandate for Chris's death (and though there is some debate as to whether or not the original terms used refers only to harmful spellcasters, Chris has repeatedly attempted to curse people with things like death and haunting for very petty reasons). Alec Benson Leary, in one of his [[Alec Benson Leary Phone Call 8|phone calls]] with Chris, attempted to point out the thoroughly un-Christian nature of Chris's dabbling in black magic, but his reasoning appeared to have little effect.

Of course, it is important to remember, even if he did convert to a shamanistic faith, chances are most groups would kick him out just as quickly. Cursing people is one of the few things Wiccans and neo-Pagans are forbidden from doing, and most all groups would look down upon his general idiocy and his dabbling into powers [[Slow-in-the-minds|beyond his comprehension]] – not to even mention the fact that neo-Pagans often take a dim view on people who get into religious groups [[Chris and sex#Moral basis on sex and double standards|just to get sex]], without comprehending the philosophy. No matter what, Chris will likely be hated for being an [[Chris and his ego|egotistical]], [[Women's Rights|sexist]], [[Chris and Race|racist]], failure.

For all we know, Chris will one day start popping magic mushrooms and writing comics based on that, which many agree would be a huge improvement on his current work.

==Delusions of Godhood?==
{{quote|Fear not. For behold I bring tidings of great joy.|Sonichu, [[Sonichu 10|''Sonichu'' #10]]}}
{{quote|I prayed for forgiveness from the real Christian. Sonichu, will he forgive me?|Aspie Sonichu, [[Sonichu 10|''Sonichu'' #10]]}}
[[Image:Issue 10 Pg 48.jpg|thumb|Sonichu cracks open his tomb and descends in a beam of light.]]
Starting on page 42 of [[Sonichu 10|issue #10]], Chris displays a somewhat disturbing twist to the plot (such as it is) of his comics. [[Ultra Sonichu]] frees [[Zelina Rosechu]] from her stoned state using his Chaotic powers, then appears to [[Darkbind Sonichu]] with a message similar in tone, if not outright text, to prophecies of the coming of Jesus Christ (complete with arms outstretched as if he were suspended on a crucifix).

Later on in the issue, Ultra Sonichu travels to the world of [[Asperchu]], where the characters of that comic inform him that they were forced into their roles by Alec, and that they had been praying to Christian Weston Chandler for deliverance and forgiveness. Lo and behold, Chris did send the Messiah Sonichu to end their suffering. Sonichu uses the "Chaotic Remedy" to miraculously cure them all of their [[Asperger's syndrome]] (even though only Asperchu himself had the condition) and gives them new names and new, "better" looks.

It should be noted that, like Jesus Christ, [[Sonichu]] was born to a [[virgin with rage|virgin]].

Even before this, Chris had directly compared himself to God. In Issue #7, after Christian is lost in the Time Void, [http://archive.sonichu.com/cwcipedia/index.php?title=Issue_7/Page_32 Sonichu says this].

{{quote|In the meantime, he will receive the [[Chris and English|accumilitive]] memories of the passing moments, so in a way, he is looking down on us, like our Lord and God are able to, but the vision may be blurred.|[[Sonichu]], [[Sonichu 7|''Sonichu'' #7]]}}

Possibly in response to criticism about acting as God, in [http://cogsdev.110mb.com/cwcipedia/index.php/Issue_10/Page_62 later pages] Chris addressed the issue of the non-canon chaotic combo worshiping him in an incredibly ignorant manner. First, he declares that he is not God but "a servant of him and Jesus", and immediately after goes on to "forgive" Michael (the copycat Sonichu's made-over name) for "baring false witness against <nowiki>[Chris]</nowiki>", as if he has the authority to forgive the breaking of the ten commandments, ''like he's God or something.'' In addition, only five pages later [[Angelica]] condemns those who prefer [[Asperchu|Alec]]'s artwork over Chris's as "blasphemous".<ref>[http://archive.sonichu.com/cwcipedia/index.php?title=File:SchuComic10P66.jpg Issue 10, page 66]</ref>

Further evidence of Chris's blossoming God complex comes through his answer to some of the frequently asked questions that were put to him via the [[Mailbag]], where he states that he considers Sonichu to have over a billion fans.<ref>[[Common Questions]]</ref> The only other fictional character who can claim such a number is GodJesus (or AllahMuhammad). This mad fuckery is compounded by the fact that Chris is like a God to Sonichu; this means that his opinion of himself is that of a God's God. Or maybe a [[Christopher's name change|God's bear]]. Chris moves in mysterious ways.

In his e-mails to [[Reggie Fils-Aimé]] he seems to call himself Jesus: ''"You have my word as an Avid Gamer, Lamb of God, and Humble Human Being that I WILL work Very Hard to Save, Save, Save."''<ref>[[Reggie Fils-Aimé]]</ref> However, this could also be a [[Chris and English|malapropism]] for "Word of God."

Chris might have developed a God complex as early as [[2000]], as the halo floating over his head on the cover of ''[[Christian's Favorite Hits!]]'' seems to indicate.
{{clear}}

==Chris and other faiths==
Given his sheltered existence in the heart of the suburban American South, Chris probably hasn't had much direct exposure to anything but mainstream brands of Protestantism. When his "fans" asked him for his feelings on other religions during an [[IRC (28 December 2008)|IRC chat]], he glossed over the question and simply reiterated his own unthinking statement of faith. At other times, his comments have been scattered and inconsistent.

===Other Christian churches===
Chris has described "[[Wikipedia:Mormonism|Mormans]]" [sic] as not being datable.<ref>[[MySpace messages]]</ref> He has never explained why, but he may have learned through [[Anna]] that Mormons typically don't date non-Mormons.

[[Angelica]] is a [[Wikipedia:Catholic Church|Roman Catholic]], raised by [[Wikipedia:Nun#Catholic|nuns]]. However, she is still a huge slut without any opposition to premarital sex.

===Judaism===
"[[A Sonichu and Rosechu Christmas Story]]" reveals that Chris has some awareness of [[Wikipedia:Judaism|Judaism]], probably picked up from watching ''[[South Park]]''. He appears to not understand that Jews and [[Wikipedia:Buddhism|Buddhists]] don't celebrate [[Christmas]]. However, in the way he wrote it, it is unknown if he's implying that Christians, [[Hanukkah|Jews]] and [[Christmas#Jolly Buddah (sic)|Buddhists]] go to the same place of worship, or if he's saying they go to separate places of worship and calls them "churches" because his vocabulary is heavily lacking.<ref>In fact, in [[BlueSpike Skype Logs 13#09-02-27|one chat]] Chris has referred to what was most likely a synagogue as a "Jewich Church".</ref> In [[Michael Snyder is ColdHearted and Mean]], Chris is being blatantly anti-Semitic by "just throwing it out there" that he thinks Snyder is Jewish, and uses "Jew" as an insult (which he also got from ''South Park''). [[Some Favored Comedians]] is a thinly-veiled furious backpedaling attempt in which he rambles on and on about how he respects Jewish comedians like [[Seinfeld|Jerry Seinfeld]].

===Islam===
In a CWCipedia [[Chris-Chan_(CWCipedia)#Chris-Chan_the_Moralf.2A.2A|article]], he strongly hints at feeling great hatred towards Muslims. Although the article primarily exists to deny various accusations trolls have made about him, he does not deny being a "prolific hater of all things not Christian".<ref>[[Chris-Chan (CWCipedia)]]</ref>

===Scientology===
On 28 [[December 2009]], Chris wrote a blog entry telling [[Jack Thaddeus]] to get out of the closet and "Go Into F***ing Scientology".<ref>[[CWC Blog]]</ref> Following this comment Chris was asked to elaborate his thoughts on Scientology; he said that he neither agrees with it nor disapprove of it.<ref>[[Mailbag 52#Master of diplomacy at work|Mailbag 52]]</ref>

===Atheism===
[[Vivian Gee]]'s belief in [[Wikipedia:Taoism|Taoism]], a non-theistic religion, seemed to be a concept he couldn't process.<ref>[[Vivitheg's AIM chat]]</ref>

He doesn't think much of atheists, but even there Chris has a hard time articulating his opinion. When Vivian asked him to explain why he dislikes them, he said, "I don't know, but I do know that they are not believers of God and Jesus."<ref>[[Vivitheg's AIM chat]]</ref> It's even harder for atheists to try and take [[GodJesus]] seriously enough to believe in them when Chris goes around boasting about having the deities on his side as though they were his personal avengers. When asked "You often attempt to scare your [[troll]]s by stating they will go to hell. Some of your trolls do not believe in hell, what do you have to say to them?" by [[Thorg]] in [[Common_Questions#09_January_2010|Common Questions 9 Jan 2010]], his response was:

{{quote|Firstly, it is NOT a "scare tactic", [[Chris and reality|IT IS FACT]]. And second, I say "Well, Believe it or not. You are Not Dead Yet".}}

While it might hurt your brain trying to translate that second line from autism to English, Chris is trying to say that Hell exists but we haven't experienced it yet because we're still alive. In the [[List of OkCupid Answers|OkCupid]] answers, Chris stated that he would not date an atheist. On the other hand, [[The Wallflower]] told Chris in one of her e-mails that she had no religion,<ref>[[Wallflower E-mails]]</ref> which would most likely classify her as either an atheist or an agnostic. As the rest of the correspondence shows, Chris was not bothered by her lack of faith and [["Damian Antaria", PLEASE, Don't Leave Me - I NEED YOU!!!|continued to pursue her]].

In [[Calling Out]] videos, Chris gives "pizza-faced atheist" as [[Thorg]]'s defining characteristic, with a heretofore unseen vitriol. Then in a later video, he attacks atheism with arguments so silly that even a straw man fundamentalist wouldn't use them, and that's saying something.

{{quote|But... I would certainly not want to be an atheist, 'cause if I don't have [[GodJesus|God or Jesus]] at my- by my side, I would be more lost than I was considerably beforehand! Atheists are the [[Beel|Devil]]'s spawning, as it would seem! ...And I would certainly would not want to be amrong- amongst them when they are run out of town with the pitchforks and the [[Chris and English|hace]] and the fire! As a believer... I would either be a [[Chris and Anger|peacem- I would more likely be a peacemaker]], but I certainly wouldn't mind being one with the pitchfork, following the crowd and pushing the atheist out of town!}}

When Chris [[Exposed - Jeremy Slonwhite of Vancouver, BC Canada‎|exposed Thorg]], his reasoning for wanting people to troll Thorg instead of him devolve from "because he's trolling me" to "because he's an 'evil' atheist". The video was removed because it was declared hate speech.

Chris's half-brother [[Cole Smithey]] is also an atheist.<ref>[[Cole Smithey E-mails]]</ref>

==Sources==
<references/>

==See also==
*[[Angelica Rosechu]]
*[[Dreams]]
*[[Christmas]]
*[[Christian's name change|GodBear]]
*[[Grace Baptist Church]]
*[[Wesley Memorial United Methodist Church]]

==External links==
*[http://store.engrish.com/godjest.html Buy your own GodJesus T-shirt here]
{{Not_Jerks}}
{{Chris and}}

User talk:Champthom

2012-07-11T00:01:22Z

Negi Springfield: /* Permanently Banned from Message Board */

Talk to me.

Be sure to check out the archives as well:

'''Archive:''' [[User:Champthom/Archive 1|1]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 2|2]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 3|3]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 4|4]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 5|5]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 6|6]]

== Champ, I mean it now ==
When I come on here and see that people like [[User talk:Steve Landcleamer|this mouthbreather]] have been fucking with pages while being told not to and spamming pictures of furry porn that we for some reason allow on here, and yet I have the power to neither delete the image or ban the sperg, it cuts me deep. I'm on here often enough and I've already contributed a lot to the wiki. Can you throw some Jerkop powers my way so I can sort this shit out in future? We don't have nearly enough active mods and this place seems to have this kind of shit all the time. I mean this seriously Champ, I think the CWCki could benefit a lot from more Jerkops. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:09, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
:Before you answer him, Champ, keep in mind that I've also been here a long time and am also actively contributing; so if you decided to give Old meme jerkop rights, I sure would appreciate receiving them as well. Just saying. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 09:24, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

*You both make good points. Could you point out the furry image though, the only image I've seen by him is that picture of Chris ejaculating on Anna's face, which I've incidentally deleted because I don't think it really improves the Anna article. Anyways, about quality in general - I've discussed this issue with Anonymax, and this goes for the both of you, that as regular users you have all the tools needed to improve the quality of the CWCki. If there's an incidence such as an edit war going on, you're welcome to ask any of the admins to step in to resolve the issue. For these reasons, I don't think it's needed to add more jerkops or admins for these reasons. However, if it ever got out of control, then I would consider making someone a quality control jerkop to enforce quality standards. However, I think for the most part you all have the tools you need, just keep making good edits and reverting shit like you have been doing and I think that should be sufficient.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 22:11, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
**He's probably talking about [[:Image:Sonichu.jpg|this picture]], which was spammed on [[CWCki:Privacy policy]]. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 23:46, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

== Deletion of Fail; Effects ==

Would it be necessary to organize a project of some kind to remove red "fail" pipes from pages across the CWCki? --[[User:IwegalBadnik|IwegalBadnik]] 11:27, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
*[http://www.sonichu.com/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Fail&limit=500 Here they all are]. Clean them at your leisure. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 11:57, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
:[[User:Anonybot|Anonybot]] is working on it. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 14:41, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

Fail article deleted, stupid page names corrected, Champ finally got around to deleting the furry porn. It's been a good week. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:39, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
*At least SOMEONE is happy.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 04:18, 25 April 2012 (PDT)

==Why did you delete the article on Kim?==
She is as notable as any of the gal pals, and all the info IS public, coming from the Kacey calls.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:03, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know the Kim from the Kacey calls is the same Kim Wilson? Kim is a fairly common name. You're also assuming a lot of things, like Kim is ScarletSanctum when you have no proof of that, and you're including a lot of things that are rumors like how some apology video was because Kim was upset. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:04, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

*1. Chris states her name is Kim Wilson in one of the Kacey calls.
*2. ScarletSanctum is Kim's youtube handle, as stated in [[SingStar Challenge]].
*3. Chris addresses in that video that he upset Kim and Kacey with the previous video.

And if the name was an issue why not just redirect the page to "Kim"?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:17, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know that ScarletSanctum is Kim? Does Chris explicitly mention it? Also does Chris specifically say Kim in that video in that it upset her? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:23, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

Chris does explicitly mention it. Look at this dialouge in [[Kacey Call 1]]:
*Chris: Yeah. So you know uh, Kim, you know uh, how she, uh, yeah you know, uh, Kim, I actually heard that Kim and her friend Logan actually live in the Charlton area close to the downtown mall, you know? So if you ever wanted to look her up and, you know, just talk to her, you know, find about more about the impostor for me, or you know, see what her opinion of me is on the Internet from her point of view...
*Kacey: Oh, you want me to do some undercover stuff? Chris, that is so sweet of you! You know how much I wanted to get involved.
*Chris: Oh yeah, sure. You know that ScarletSanctum account? That's hers.
*Kacey: Okay, no, I will totally, totally message her. It's Kim Woods, you said?
*Chris: No, Kim Wilson. Totally. Message her, talk to her all about me.

As far as making the video in response to offending Kim, he also implicitly states this:

"Uh, I dedicate this video to uh, Logan. Boyfriend of my gal-pal, Kim. Yeah, anyway uh, I've--I just wanted to uh, apologize for uh...offending you in anyway"

He could also be referring to offending Logan, but either way why through the baby out with the bathwater?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:35, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*Let me think about it. In the meantime, I've made a [[User:Steve Landcleamer/Kim|subpage]] for you in the meantime.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:39, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

So is there any hold up or is the page good to go? I've answered all your questions and it seems to meet all the requirements.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:32, 5 May 2012 (PDT)
*Don't you think it might be a little bit imprudent to make a page about Kim?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 17:58, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Why would it be imprudent? All the information is public and sourced. All the other gal pals have pages, so what would the problem be?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:37, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Well?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)
*Good God, first learn some patience, this isn't a life and death issue. Second of all, let me put it this way - in your own words, the supposed Kim calls are unreleased. Why do you think that is?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:18, 8 May 2012 (PDT)

Because "she"'s obviously still trying to troll Chris. Regardless, that's beside the point, while the calls haven't been released, all the information in the article has. You initially deleted it under the guise that is was "Not notable, not based on public information", but we both know that that's clearly not the cause. My page seemed to meet all the guidelines, so based on Cwicki guidelines, what is objectionable about it?

I'm sorry if I seem impatient, I just find this quelling of already public information to be pretty ridiculous and counter productive to the CWCki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 14:43, 8 May 2012 (PDT)
*Based on my discussions with Canine and Anonymax, I have decided to restore the article. Remember, the CWCki is form Chris's POV so Kim isn't a troll, she has not publicly declared herself to be a troll to Chris. I'd also avoid posting on /cwc/ and CWCki Forums when you make an article on a delicate topic like this.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:09, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

===If I may step in and say a piece===
I know I may not be towing the party line by saying this Champ, but Land has a point here. This is all information that was technically on the wiki anyway, just in out of the way places. Personally, I have no problem with covering things up for trolling purposes, because I understand the need to do so and I'm not one to whine about dang dirty stonecutters, but we have information on Kim here already. I don't care which side of the fence you're on Champ, I'll just go with what you say, but you've got to at least be consistent. Either allow the article outright, or if you object to some of the content in the article being made public, censor it and then allow the censored version to be posted. Your decision is final and no-one would be able to stop you, so I don't know what you're worried about. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:22, 9 May 2012 (PDT)
*True, I realize this, but the issue is that there's a good reason that Kim doesn't already have an article, mostly for [[A_Quick_Guide_to_CWCki#Privacy|privacy reasons]] which is indeed already covered. I'm trying to convey that subtly. Remember, Chris reads the CWCki, and loose lips sink ships. I don't think "we" released the Kacey calls, Canine tells me it was all dropped by Liquid's twin brother so it's not like we were able to filter through everything to see if anything was objectionable.

:This is a difficult decision and I need to discuss it with Canine a bit more, unfortunately we have conflicting schedules so I'll try and catch him tonight.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 06:31, 9 May 2012 (PDT)

==Chris's POV==
*Thank you for restoring the Kim article. I am wondering something concerning what you said about the cwicki supposed to be from Chris's point of view. Why do articles like [[Obesity]] state that Chris is fat? He's said multiple times that he does not think he is. There are lots of other examples like this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:07, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

[[Chris and reality]] would be the best example of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:13, 11 May 2012 (PDT)
::We go by what Chris thinks/says unless we have decent evidence to the contrary. With his obesity, we have more than enough evidence to support this. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 01:04, 12 May 2012 (PDT)

==Permanently Banned from Message Board==
I really don't understand this at all. Please respond to the email I sent you.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:21, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

Never mind one of the other mods took care of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)

I have a similar problem and would like to be unbanned. [[User:Negi Springfield|Negi Springfield]] 23:23, 9 July 2012 (PDT)
*I'm guessing you got banned for being a sperglord, but what's your username?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 05:12, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
I was banned due to 789chan having a thread on me during one of their CWC dry spells. I went by Negi Springfield, so not much different from what I'm using right now. [[User:Negi Springfield|Negi Springfield]] 17:01, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

== Comms ==

I'm on IRC a lot and today is my day off work so if you're around so am I! --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 02:19, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

== can I help? ==
Hey I have a capture card that does 720p,1800p,ect and wanted to know if I could use it to help (lbp videos,screen shots) does anything need to be rerecorded? also I'm moving soon so if you could say something in the next week or so (before I have to pack my computer up) that would be great. [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)
* Sorry it took a day to get back to you, just had to think as I do appreciate your gumption. To be honest though, I can't think of anything in particular, BUT that's just to the best of my knowledge. Head over to [[CWCki:General|the community portal]] and ask there, there might be some people to have some ideas. Just do me one teensy favor - be sure to sign your posts (that's four ~ in a row) so we know who you are when you post. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:29, 30 May 2012 (PDT)
* thanks! [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

==Bruce Johnson==
The Bruce Johnson thing is real. I don't even care about the PVCC anymore. I just want you to know I'm not making up what I added to the cwicki. Would you like a wider screenshot of the facebook convo?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:26, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know it's the real Bruce Johnson? Or rather, why should we trust you? I could easily have made a Bruce Johnson account to fool you. Even if it is real, do we really need it? All it boils down to is Johnson saying he's not a pedophile contrary to what Chris said. Is this really a startling revelation, that Chris said something negative about someone and it's not true? Do we really need to confirm this, in light of Chris's history? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:36, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*'Sup bitches, guess who's back? Champy, thought I'd drop in to tell you that under the "no shit is too minor" policy, (which you should really get rid of if it enrages you so), we do indeed need to confirm everything if possible. That said this is still probably bullshit, and confirming this still isn't your job. If you want my two cents, give Landcleamer a chance to convince you of its authenticity at least. I'm sure you have high standards for what you'd accept as convincing proof, so either someone else will go out of their way to contribute something valid, or he can fail to do so and you can say no again. Worst case scenario, Steve Landcleamer turns out to be the weenest of ween trolls and goes through a lot of work to convince you of something fairly inconsequential that can be removed if it later turns out to be fake anyway. The way I see it, this isn't a real problem for you either way. Let the monkey dance. Also, your insulting summaries were hilarious. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 02:12, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
:*I forgot to add in the summary that our friend Steve here wanted to be let into PVCC on the basis of this "startling" revelation. As I've said before, "no shit is too minor" should mean that we don't overlook things, not that we need to get third party confirmation on everything. Anyone who's familiar with Chris knows that his memory isn't totally accurate and he's been known to bullshit. Given that Chris has called Michael Synder a Jew, does this mean we have to contact Michael Synder and confirm whether or not he is a Jew? Do we need to contact Mary Lee Walsh to make sure she's not in fact secretly a witch planning on banning true love from Virginia? It should be pretty obvious that Johnson probably isn't a pedophile, and what does his admission of not being a pedophile say? He could be lying for all we know, I'm not saying he's a pedophile, he probably isn't, but his admission of not being a pedophile shouldn't be startling. I mean, did you expect him to say "Chris got me, I'm a kiddy piddler, I love little boys and molesting them as they sit on my lap and I do horrible profane things to them." Of course the answer is "no," why do we need to have confirmation of this?
::As I've said before, I don't like people bothering Chris tangentially related to Chris about stuff. I think having known Chris is punishment enough, it doesn't help to have epic ween trolls like Steve here think they're gonna get into PVCC on the basis of harassing these people and asking them for information about Chris. I think it's pretty damn weird and spergy to do this, that is to contact people with tangential relations to Chris and ask them details about Chris. Someone on the CWCki Forums is like "No, it's not weird, it's just like liking any celebrity like the Kardashians." Here's the thing - I don't think celebrity magazines are hunting down the lady who served one of those Kardashian people coffee and doing a full length interview. It's bizarre, I would be weirded out if some person went up to and wanted me to tell them everything I know about some person I vaguely remember from years ago.
::This isn't exactly someone who served Chris coffee, it's a major figure in Christory.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::Burden of proof is on Steve and he's on shakey ground. I don't trust him one bit. I don't like having things that could very easily be false on the CWCki because it hurts our reputation and people already distrust the CWCki as it is, I don't need to give them more reason to distrust it. I don't want to give people an incentive to make up fake bullshit and post it on the CWCki with the thought they'll be declared an epic ween troll for getting "new" "content" and that they'll get into PVCC and that mommy and daddy will finally love them because they'll no longer be wastes of human flesh.
::You have to REALLY convince me here, Steve. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:18, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Hey, no objections from me. Steve wants to dig up trivial information to try and get into PVCC, that's his business. It's not like it would at all harm the CWCki to put up a single quote from the man if it does turn out to be true. Though really, you need to do something about the abundance of ween trolls trying to get into PVCC, or even just normal idiots desperately begging for it, like 16BitAlex. Maybe the guys in the forum itself or on IRC get a good laugh out of them, but I personally just get depressed when I see people like Stevey-boy cluttering the CWCki recent changes, desperately pursuing some unattainable goal by making bullshit edits and whining as hard as possible on talk pages. It wastes your time, it wastes mine, it's rather sad, and it's not even entertaining enough for the guys on /cwc/ to get more than a single thread from it. All in all, a pathetic affair for all involved. I would suggest temp-banning Pipecleaner if he continues to make a nuisance of himself after this, under your "Drama whoring" clause. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:13, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Champ, you have my email. This might be a dumb idea on my part, but I'm willing to give you the facebook login information so you can see the message for yourself. I'm willing to trust you to not fuck with the account, just to go into the private messages and verify the authenticity. After that can I be allowed back to the cwicki forum, under the understanding that I'll never ask to join the PVCC again?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 07:50, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I think /cwc/ has made a good point, a point I have, is that - what did you expect him to say? Of course he's going to say he didn't molest Chris, even if he did molest Chris he's not going to admit it to some stranger. So having him say that he didn't do it isn't saying much, because either way he'll deny it and that really doesn't add anything to the discussion. And like I said, given Chris's background, we know he exaggerates things, and that his recollection of events aren't always the most reliable, do we need to actually get confirmation of this?
:::Ignoring the issue you wanted to get into PVCC, I don't see what it really adds to the discussion. I also don't want to encourage people to hassle people connected to Chris to get information.
:::If people feel like it absolutely, positively must remain in the article, I'd say something like "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..." or something like that so people can interpret it however they please. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 02:38, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Alright, can we keep it in under that wording?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:34, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::* How do we even know it was from Bruce anyway? I'm not doubting Steve Landcleamer has a message on his facebook, I'm 100% sure that if anyone where to get onto his facebook they would find said message...I'm doubting that it's Bruce. People have been faking to be people Chris knows for quite a while (like Megan), this wouldn't be a first.--[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 09:10, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Why would someone make an entire fake facebook account full of pictures and friends, on the random change that years after its creation someone recognizes them as Chris Chan's old principal, just so they can dish out false information? If that was the case surely they wouldn't have just said that Chris is a liar and insane.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 10:43, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*May I ask a question? Even if you did successfully contact Chris's old principal, why was the only thing you could ask "R u pedo lol?". The big questions about Chris's time at NGE are "Why was he sent to the principal?", "Why exactly did they record his screams, was it because he was a repeat offender?", "Why was he transferred there from Greene County Primary?", and "Were the principal's lap incident and scream recording incident the same incident?". Any of those would be worth adding to the CWCki, and it would have cleared away most of the fog surrounding the event. Instead you asked for information that everyone already knew. It's like you stumbled into a garden containing hundreds of delicious alien fruits and came back with a half-eaten ordinary banana.--[[User:MoarLurk|MoarLurk]] 15:00, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::Firstly, if you read the screenshot, you'll see I did ask him what really went down with Chris being sent to his office and having his screams recorded. All Johnson says is Chris is liar. Secondly I figured asking private information out of the blue about a former student would get no answer, by connecting it to the fact that Chris is getting sued by Snyder (who he also claimed was a pedophile), the message comes across as a concerned citizen looking out for Mr. Johnson, rather than some creep obsessed with Chris, and thus got a reply.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 13:56, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I would also add that just because the Facebook profile is full of pictures and friends doesn't mean it isn't fake. It could just be a -really- good fake. The kind of fake that leaves no obvious evidence that makes it easy to discern as a fake. As to why someone would have done it, stranger and less tactically sound things have happened, enough that I can conceive of and not be surprised by someone doing it for exactly the reasons you mentioned, regardless of the lack of point in doing so. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 15:17, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I will be happy to provide you a link to the facebook page, along with it's postings dating years back, and you still tell me this is can all be chalked up to an elaborate troll scheme.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*You don't need to. I checked the page in its entirety (at least as much as I had access to) before I posted here, and did again before posting this. I think this is more of a difference of opinion than anything: the factors that convince you that it is real (profile in existence since 2008, existence of friends and wall posts, etc), don't automatically convince me. Like 4Macie said, if this is a fake, it is hardly the first time someone has done it. I'll also reiterate my opinion that a -really- good fake will not have any obvious signs that it is a fake. I'm not saying that the profile is fake, just that there isn't any compelling evidence that it isn't. My official position is that it exists, and people more savvy and/or more connected than I can verify the truth of it all if they choose to. Whether it is or it isn't, I'm inclined to agree with Champthom in that Bruce Johnson not being a pedophile is hardly an earth-shattering surprise. At best, it's just (allegedly) confirming something everybody but Chris already believed to be true. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 17:51, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Does anyone object to keeping this info under the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? --[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*I don't think we should put it on here at all until Champthom is convinced it's real. Also; epic ween, brah.. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 03:33, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

===My thoughts===
I think the wrong focus here is whether it's indeed real or not. Supposedly this Facebook profile has been around a while, has plenty of photos, etc. What motive is there for someone to go into such detail and for what purposes? It's pretty easy why someone would want to impersonate someone like Megan or someone Chris knew from high school - so Chris will see these people, decide to talk to them, and they'd then be able to troll Chris. What purpose is there for someone faking Bruce Johnson? Why would Chris decide to contact Bruce Johnson? I can only really imagine Chris deciding 1) to look up Johnson and 2) taking the effort to contact him mostly to say something like "You molested me you pedofork!" and mind you, Chris is pretty lazy so he wouldn't go to that much hassle. So we have to possibilities - 1) someone has planned since 2008 to troll Chris and has created a believable Facebook profile, all for the motive of trolling Chris or 2) it's actually Bruce Johnson. Occam's razor would suggest the latter.

I think the real issue here is - how can we be sure it's real or not? There's no way of knowing whether this is real or not. Are we supposed to take Steve's word for it? What's to stop other people from making similar claims? People love making shit up about Chris and using that as a way to get attention for themselves or in Steve's case, to try and get into PVCC. The CWCki was designed purposely to separate truth and fact and that's why I take this sort of thing seriously, namely that I don't like things of dubious origins to be cited as facts on here.

But also, let's consider - why the hell is this so damn important? I mean, it's just Steve saying "Chris says you're a pedophile" and Johnson says "No I'm not." Is that really startling? Will this totally change the way we look at Chris's claim? You know what? Even if he was a pedophile, do you really expect him to admit to a strange he molested children? So his confession says nothing really. I think that a reader of the CWCki should be familiar with Chris's track record with memory in that he tends to remember things in his favor (like that he was a Pokemon gym leader vs. Lucas and Mimms's claim that he only did it one time when all the regular people were out), plus that [[Wikipedia:Repressed_memory|repressed memories]] in general can be dubious and that it's very easy to construct pseudo-memories. Let's be VERY generous and let's say that Chris was indeed molested by Bruce Johnson. Does this really excuse his homophobia? I'd say no. True, it'd be a more valid reason than thinking that you can "turn" gay but I think that really only justifies not liking one particular gay person. Let's say a black person robs me - does this justify me being racist to all black people? No, that'd be silly, just because one particular black person harmed me doesn't mean I should hate blacks as a groups. Same thing applies to Chris and gays.

Side note - Steve, don't break up one of my posts, because it looks like you wrote that whole bit when I in fact did.

In regards to your comment, you're right, this isn't like someone serving coffee - it's much weirder. It's more like if a complete stranger approached you on the street and asked you about the guy who sat two seats in back of you in English class and demanding you tell them every single detail about them. No, Chris isn't a celebrity, he's our bizarre obsession and we need to be honest with ourselves, it's sorta weird. If it wasn't for trolling, Chris would be an ordinary, dull person, albeit with some eccentricities but just an ordinary person who you might look at a few extra seconds if you were to pass him by but not a celebrity by normal standards. If you think it's normal to contact people who vaguely know people from ages ago and ask them for every single detail about said person, they'd probably think you're some sort of stalker or there's something mental with you.

So should we have this tidbit on the article? Like I said, I don't think it really adds anything. If it's generating this much furious debate, I don't think it'd be wise to include it. This isn't about me not being convinced, it's about not convincing the CWCki community as a whole. Like I said, I don't think we're losing out on anything major here.

Those are my thoughts at least. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 05:20, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

Why not include it? Isn't there an inherent interest to here Johnson's response even though it is what we'd assume it would be? It can only make an article stronger. Take for example a New York Times article about an alleged criminal, it will always make a note that they contacted the accused, even if the person simply replies with a refusal to comment.

Including Johnson's comments in the article helps verify what people suspect about Chris (he made this incident up). Isn't further information/confirmation better than none?

As far as proving the facebook message was not some photoshop, I'm still offering Champ access to the acount so that I can prove I am not doctoring things (and if I was wouldn't you expect the details to be a lot juicier?)--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:41, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
::: Seriously, why are you trying so hard for this? I'm pretty sure anyone who reads what Chris thinks about Bruce would naturally assume that Bruce didn't actually touch Chris inappropriately and that Chris's screams were not recorded for Bruce's amusement... --[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 21:15, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I've already explained myself. What is the harm in including it?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:46, 26 June 2012 (PDT)

So would you like the account info? I'd like to definitively prove that this is real and move on.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:26, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

* I don't think anyone doubts that you received the message, the uncertainty lies in whether the account you received it from is genuine which cannot be proved by someone logging into your FB account. And also whether it's important enough to go on the CWCki anyway. [[User:Samboy|Samboy]] 02:07, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

The what's wrong with the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? We've already established that there's an incredibly slim chance that it's a fake account, and this would reflect that small margin of error.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:41, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

* Ehhhh ... I'm still inclined to basically agree with Champ in the respect that this isn't really all that important and we're not losing out on anything major by not including it. I too also wonder why you're so insistent on this. Is this really so important that it's been worth the eight days of discussion thus far? That it's worth giving your Facebook info to someone to prove the authenticity of a point that is almost unanimously considered too minor to really be worth the effort? Which to me, I might add, seems an awful lot like something -Chris- would do, or would have done in the past. Honestly, the more you insist on having this put in the CWCki, the more skeptical I am and the more I feel that, for you, this is less about documenting things related to Chris and more about trying to boost your cred and adding more contributions to your credit. Or, like Champ already pointed out, trying to get into PVCC. Near as I can figure, the only one who is determined to see this in the CWCki is you. --[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 12:52, 28 June 2012 (PDT)
**This. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 05:39, 29 June 2012 (PDT)

*Alright fine, you don't want it, I'll stop pushing it. Champ can you let me back on the message board? I didn't violate any rules and it's been two weeks already.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:05, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*You broke the rule about being a sperg. If you wanna go talk about Chris, why not try /cwc/? I'm sure they'll love you there.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:45, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*That's okay I'm content without being a member of either and just editing the cwicki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:08, 30 June 2012 (PDT)

User talk:Champthom

2012-07-10T16:09:18Z

Negi Springfield: /* Permanently Banned from Message Board */

Talk to me.

Be sure to check out the archives as well:

'''Archive:''' [[User:Champthom/Archive 1|1]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 2|2]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 3|3]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 4|4]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 5|5]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 6|6]]

== Champ, I mean it now ==
When I come on here and see that people like [[User talk:Steve Landcleamer|this mouthbreather]] have been fucking with pages while being told not to and spamming pictures of furry porn that we for some reason allow on here, and yet I have the power to neither delete the image or ban the sperg, it cuts me deep. I'm on here often enough and I've already contributed a lot to the wiki. Can you throw some Jerkop powers my way so I can sort this shit out in future? We don't have nearly enough active mods and this place seems to have this kind of shit all the time. I mean this seriously Champ, I think the CWCki could benefit a lot from more Jerkops. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:09, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
:Before you answer him, Champ, keep in mind that I've also been here a long time and am also actively contributing; so if you decided to give Old meme jerkop rights, I sure would appreciate receiving them as well. Just saying. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 09:24, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

*You both make good points. Could you point out the furry image though, the only image I've seen by him is that picture of Chris ejaculating on Anna's face, which I've incidentally deleted because I don't think it really improves the Anna article. Anyways, about quality in general - I've discussed this issue with Anonymax, and this goes for the both of you, that as regular users you have all the tools needed to improve the quality of the CWCki. If there's an incidence such as an edit war going on, you're welcome to ask any of the admins to step in to resolve the issue. For these reasons, I don't think it's needed to add more jerkops or admins for these reasons. However, if it ever got out of control, then I would consider making someone a quality control jerkop to enforce quality standards. However, I think for the most part you all have the tools you need, just keep making good edits and reverting shit like you have been doing and I think that should be sufficient.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 22:11, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
**He's probably talking about [[:Image:Sonichu.jpg|this picture]], which was spammed on [[CWCki:Privacy policy]]. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 23:46, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

== Deletion of Fail; Effects ==

Would it be necessary to organize a project of some kind to remove red "fail" pipes from pages across the CWCki? --[[User:IwegalBadnik|IwegalBadnik]] 11:27, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
*[http://www.sonichu.com/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Fail&limit=500 Here they all are]. Clean them at your leisure. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 11:57, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
:[[User:Anonybot|Anonybot]] is working on it. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 14:41, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

Fail article deleted, stupid page names corrected, Champ finally got around to deleting the furry porn. It's been a good week. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:39, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
*At least SOMEONE is happy.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 04:18, 25 April 2012 (PDT)

==Why did you delete the article on Kim?==
She is as notable as any of the gal pals, and all the info IS public, coming from the Kacey calls.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:03, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know the Kim from the Kacey calls is the same Kim Wilson? Kim is a fairly common name. You're also assuming a lot of things, like Kim is ScarletSanctum when you have no proof of that, and you're including a lot of things that are rumors like how some apology video was because Kim was upset. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:04, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

*1. Chris states her name is Kim Wilson in one of the Kacey calls.
*2. ScarletSanctum is Kim's youtube handle, as stated in [[SingStar Challenge]].
*3. Chris addresses in that video that he upset Kim and Kacey with the previous video.

And if the name was an issue why not just redirect the page to "Kim"?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:17, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know that ScarletSanctum is Kim? Does Chris explicitly mention it? Also does Chris specifically say Kim in that video in that it upset her? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:23, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

Chris does explicitly mention it. Look at this dialouge in [[Kacey Call 1]]:
*Chris: Yeah. So you know uh, Kim, you know uh, how she, uh, yeah you know, uh, Kim, I actually heard that Kim and her friend Logan actually live in the Charlton area close to the downtown mall, you know? So if you ever wanted to look her up and, you know, just talk to her, you know, find about more about the impostor for me, or you know, see what her opinion of me is on the Internet from her point of view...
*Kacey: Oh, you want me to do some undercover stuff? Chris, that is so sweet of you! You know how much I wanted to get involved.
*Chris: Oh yeah, sure. You know that ScarletSanctum account? That's hers.
*Kacey: Okay, no, I will totally, totally message her. It's Kim Woods, you said?
*Chris: No, Kim Wilson. Totally. Message her, talk to her all about me.

As far as making the video in response to offending Kim, he also implicitly states this:

"Uh, I dedicate this video to uh, Logan. Boyfriend of my gal-pal, Kim. Yeah, anyway uh, I've--I just wanted to uh, apologize for uh...offending you in anyway"

He could also be referring to offending Logan, but either way why through the baby out with the bathwater?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:35, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*Let me think about it. In the meantime, I've made a [[User:Steve Landcleamer/Kim|subpage]] for you in the meantime.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:39, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

So is there any hold up or is the page good to go? I've answered all your questions and it seems to meet all the requirements.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:32, 5 May 2012 (PDT)
*Don't you think it might be a little bit imprudent to make a page about Kim?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 17:58, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Why would it be imprudent? All the information is public and sourced. All the other gal pals have pages, so what would the problem be?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:37, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Well?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)
*Good God, first learn some patience, this isn't a life and death issue. Second of all, let me put it this way - in your own words, the supposed Kim calls are unreleased. Why do you think that is?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:18, 8 May 2012 (PDT)

Because "she"'s obviously still trying to troll Chris. Regardless, that's beside the point, while the calls haven't been released, all the information in the article has. You initially deleted it under the guise that is was "Not notable, not based on public information", but we both know that that's clearly not the cause. My page seemed to meet all the guidelines, so based on Cwicki guidelines, what is objectionable about it?

I'm sorry if I seem impatient, I just find this quelling of already public information to be pretty ridiculous and counter productive to the CWCki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 14:43, 8 May 2012 (PDT)
*Based on my discussions with Canine and Anonymax, I have decided to restore the article. Remember, the CWCki is form Chris's POV so Kim isn't a troll, she has not publicly declared herself to be a troll to Chris. I'd also avoid posting on /cwc/ and CWCki Forums when you make an article on a delicate topic like this.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:09, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

===If I may step in and say a piece===
I know I may not be towing the party line by saying this Champ, but Land has a point here. This is all information that was technically on the wiki anyway, just in out of the way places. Personally, I have no problem with covering things up for trolling purposes, because I understand the need to do so and I'm not one to whine about dang dirty stonecutters, but we have information on Kim here already. I don't care which side of the fence you're on Champ, I'll just go with what you say, but you've got to at least be consistent. Either allow the article outright, or if you object to some of the content in the article being made public, censor it and then allow the censored version to be posted. Your decision is final and no-one would be able to stop you, so I don't know what you're worried about. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:22, 9 May 2012 (PDT)
*True, I realize this, but the issue is that there's a good reason that Kim doesn't already have an article, mostly for [[A_Quick_Guide_to_CWCki#Privacy|privacy reasons]] which is indeed already covered. I'm trying to convey that subtly. Remember, Chris reads the CWCki, and loose lips sink ships. I don't think "we" released the Kacey calls, Canine tells me it was all dropped by Liquid's twin brother so it's not like we were able to filter through everything to see if anything was objectionable.

:This is a difficult decision and I need to discuss it with Canine a bit more, unfortunately we have conflicting schedules so I'll try and catch him tonight.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 06:31, 9 May 2012 (PDT)

==Chris's POV==
*Thank you for restoring the Kim article. I am wondering something concerning what you said about the cwicki supposed to be from Chris's point of view. Why do articles like [[Obesity]] state that Chris is fat? He's said multiple times that he does not think he is. There are lots of other examples like this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:07, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

[[Chris and reality]] would be the best example of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:13, 11 May 2012 (PDT)
::We go by what Chris thinks/says unless we have decent evidence to the contrary. With his obesity, we have more than enough evidence to support this. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 01:04, 12 May 2012 (PDT)

==Permanently Banned from Message Board==
I really don't understand this at all. Please respond to the email I sent you.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:21, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

Never mind one of the other mods took care of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)

I have a similar problem and would like to be unbanned. [[User:Negi Springfield|Negi Springfield]] 23:23, 9 July 2012 (PDT)
*I'm guessing you got banned for being a sperglord, but what's your username?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 05:12, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
I was banned due to 789chan having a thread on me during one of their CWC dry spells. I went by Negi Springfield, so not much different from what I'm using right now.

== Comms ==

I'm on IRC a lot and today is my day off work so if you're around so am I! --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 02:19, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

== can I help? ==
Hey I have a capture card that does 720p,1800p,ect and wanted to know if I could use it to help (lbp videos,screen shots) does anything need to be rerecorded? also I'm moving soon so if you could say something in the next week or so (before I have to pack my computer up) that would be great. [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)
* Sorry it took a day to get back to you, just had to think as I do appreciate your gumption. To be honest though, I can't think of anything in particular, BUT that's just to the best of my knowledge. Head over to [[CWCki:General|the community portal]] and ask there, there might be some people to have some ideas. Just do me one teensy favor - be sure to sign your posts (that's four ~ in a row) so we know who you are when you post. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:29, 30 May 2012 (PDT)
* thanks! [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

==Bruce Johnson==
The Bruce Johnson thing is real. I don't even care about the PVCC anymore. I just want you to know I'm not making up what I added to the cwicki. Would you like a wider screenshot of the facebook convo?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:26, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know it's the real Bruce Johnson? Or rather, why should we trust you? I could easily have made a Bruce Johnson account to fool you. Even if it is real, do we really need it? All it boils down to is Johnson saying he's not a pedophile contrary to what Chris said. Is this really a startling revelation, that Chris said something negative about someone and it's not true? Do we really need to confirm this, in light of Chris's history? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:36, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*'Sup bitches, guess who's back? Champy, thought I'd drop in to tell you that under the "no shit is too minor" policy, (which you should really get rid of if it enrages you so), we do indeed need to confirm everything if possible. That said this is still probably bullshit, and confirming this still isn't your job. If you want my two cents, give Landcleamer a chance to convince you of its authenticity at least. I'm sure you have high standards for what you'd accept as convincing proof, so either someone else will go out of their way to contribute something valid, or he can fail to do so and you can say no again. Worst case scenario, Steve Landcleamer turns out to be the weenest of ween trolls and goes through a lot of work to convince you of something fairly inconsequential that can be removed if it later turns out to be fake anyway. The way I see it, this isn't a real problem for you either way. Let the monkey dance. Also, your insulting summaries were hilarious. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 02:12, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
:*I forgot to add in the summary that our friend Steve here wanted to be let into PVCC on the basis of this "startling" revelation. As I've said before, "no shit is too minor" should mean that we don't overlook things, not that we need to get third party confirmation on everything. Anyone who's familiar with Chris knows that his memory isn't totally accurate and he's been known to bullshit. Given that Chris has called Michael Synder a Jew, does this mean we have to contact Michael Synder and confirm whether or not he is a Jew? Do we need to contact Mary Lee Walsh to make sure she's not in fact secretly a witch planning on banning true love from Virginia? It should be pretty obvious that Johnson probably isn't a pedophile, and what does his admission of not being a pedophile say? He could be lying for all we know, I'm not saying he's a pedophile, he probably isn't, but his admission of not being a pedophile shouldn't be startling. I mean, did you expect him to say "Chris got me, I'm a kiddy piddler, I love little boys and molesting them as they sit on my lap and I do horrible profane things to them." Of course the answer is "no," why do we need to have confirmation of this?
::As I've said before, I don't like people bothering Chris tangentially related to Chris about stuff. I think having known Chris is punishment enough, it doesn't help to have epic ween trolls like Steve here think they're gonna get into PVCC on the basis of harassing these people and asking them for information about Chris. I think it's pretty damn weird and spergy to do this, that is to contact people with tangential relations to Chris and ask them details about Chris. Someone on the CWCki Forums is like "No, it's not weird, it's just like liking any celebrity like the Kardashians." Here's the thing - I don't think celebrity magazines are hunting down the lady who served one of those Kardashian people coffee and doing a full length interview. It's bizarre, I would be weirded out if some person went up to and wanted me to tell them everything I know about some person I vaguely remember from years ago.
::This isn't exactly someone who served Chris coffee, it's a major figure in Christory.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::Burden of proof is on Steve and he's on shakey ground. I don't trust him one bit. I don't like having things that could very easily be false on the CWCki because it hurts our reputation and people already distrust the CWCki as it is, I don't need to give them more reason to distrust it. I don't want to give people an incentive to make up fake bullshit and post it on the CWCki with the thought they'll be declared an epic ween troll for getting "new" "content" and that they'll get into PVCC and that mommy and daddy will finally love them because they'll no longer be wastes of human flesh.
::You have to REALLY convince me here, Steve. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:18, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Hey, no objections from me. Steve wants to dig up trivial information to try and get into PVCC, that's his business. It's not like it would at all harm the CWCki to put up a single quote from the man if it does turn out to be true. Though really, you need to do something about the abundance of ween trolls trying to get into PVCC, or even just normal idiots desperately begging for it, like 16BitAlex. Maybe the guys in the forum itself or on IRC get a good laugh out of them, but I personally just get depressed when I see people like Stevey-boy cluttering the CWCki recent changes, desperately pursuing some unattainable goal by making bullshit edits and whining as hard as possible on talk pages. It wastes your time, it wastes mine, it's rather sad, and it's not even entertaining enough for the guys on /cwc/ to get more than a single thread from it. All in all, a pathetic affair for all involved. I would suggest temp-banning Pipecleaner if he continues to make a nuisance of himself after this, under your "Drama whoring" clause. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:13, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Champ, you have my email. This might be a dumb idea on my part, but I'm willing to give you the facebook login information so you can see the message for yourself. I'm willing to trust you to not fuck with the account, just to go into the private messages and verify the authenticity. After that can I be allowed back to the cwicki forum, under the understanding that I'll never ask to join the PVCC again?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 07:50, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I think /cwc/ has made a good point, a point I have, is that - what did you expect him to say? Of course he's going to say he didn't molest Chris, even if he did molest Chris he's not going to admit it to some stranger. So having him say that he didn't do it isn't saying much, because either way he'll deny it and that really doesn't add anything to the discussion. And like I said, given Chris's background, we know he exaggerates things, and that his recollection of events aren't always the most reliable, do we need to actually get confirmation of this?
:::Ignoring the issue you wanted to get into PVCC, I don't see what it really adds to the discussion. I also don't want to encourage people to hassle people connected to Chris to get information.
:::If people feel like it absolutely, positively must remain in the article, I'd say something like "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..." or something like that so people can interpret it however they please. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 02:38, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Alright, can we keep it in under that wording?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:34, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::* How do we even know it was from Bruce anyway? I'm not doubting Steve Landcleamer has a message on his facebook, I'm 100% sure that if anyone where to get onto his facebook they would find said message...I'm doubting that it's Bruce. People have been faking to be people Chris knows for quite a while (like Megan), this wouldn't be a first.--[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 09:10, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Why would someone make an entire fake facebook account full of pictures and friends, on the random change that years after its creation someone recognizes them as Chris Chan's old principal, just so they can dish out false information? If that was the case surely they wouldn't have just said that Chris is a liar and insane.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 10:43, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*May I ask a question? Even if you did successfully contact Chris's old principal, why was the only thing you could ask "R u pedo lol?". The big questions about Chris's time at NGE are "Why was he sent to the principal?", "Why exactly did they record his screams, was it because he was a repeat offender?", "Why was he transferred there from Greene County Primary?", and "Were the principal's lap incident and scream recording incident the same incident?". Any of those would be worth adding to the CWCki, and it would have cleared away most of the fog surrounding the event. Instead you asked for information that everyone already knew. It's like you stumbled into a garden containing hundreds of delicious alien fruits and came back with a half-eaten ordinary banana.--[[User:MoarLurk|MoarLurk]] 15:00, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::Firstly, if you read the screenshot, you'll see I did ask him what really went down with Chris being sent to his office and having his screams recorded. All Johnson says is Chris is liar. Secondly I figured asking private information out of the blue about a former student would get no answer, by connecting it to the fact that Chris is getting sued by Snyder (who he also claimed was a pedophile), the message comes across as a concerned citizen looking out for Mr. Johnson, rather than some creep obsessed with Chris, and thus got a reply.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 13:56, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I would also add that just because the Facebook profile is full of pictures and friends doesn't mean it isn't fake. It could just be a -really- good fake. The kind of fake that leaves no obvious evidence that makes it easy to discern as a fake. As to why someone would have done it, stranger and less tactically sound things have happened, enough that I can conceive of and not be surprised by someone doing it for exactly the reasons you mentioned, regardless of the lack of point in doing so. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 15:17, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I will be happy to provide you a link to the facebook page, along with it's postings dating years back, and you still tell me this is can all be chalked up to an elaborate troll scheme.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*You don't need to. I checked the page in its entirety (at least as much as I had access to) before I posted here, and did again before posting this. I think this is more of a difference of opinion than anything: the factors that convince you that it is real (profile in existence since 2008, existence of friends and wall posts, etc), don't automatically convince me. Like 4Macie said, if this is a fake, it is hardly the first time someone has done it. I'll also reiterate my opinion that a -really- good fake will not have any obvious signs that it is a fake. I'm not saying that the profile is fake, just that there isn't any compelling evidence that it isn't. My official position is that it exists, and people more savvy and/or more connected than I can verify the truth of it all if they choose to. Whether it is or it isn't, I'm inclined to agree with Champthom in that Bruce Johnson not being a pedophile is hardly an earth-shattering surprise. At best, it's just (allegedly) confirming something everybody but Chris already believed to be true. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 17:51, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Does anyone object to keeping this info under the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? --[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*I don't think we should put it on here at all until Champthom is convinced it's real. Also; epic ween, brah.. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 03:33, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

===My thoughts===
I think the wrong focus here is whether it's indeed real or not. Supposedly this Facebook profile has been around a while, has plenty of photos, etc. What motive is there for someone to go into such detail and for what purposes? It's pretty easy why someone would want to impersonate someone like Megan or someone Chris knew from high school - so Chris will see these people, decide to talk to them, and they'd then be able to troll Chris. What purpose is there for someone faking Bruce Johnson? Why would Chris decide to contact Bruce Johnson? I can only really imagine Chris deciding 1) to look up Johnson and 2) taking the effort to contact him mostly to say something like "You molested me you pedofork!" and mind you, Chris is pretty lazy so he wouldn't go to that much hassle. So we have to possibilities - 1) someone has planned since 2008 to troll Chris and has created a believable Facebook profile, all for the motive of trolling Chris or 2) it's actually Bruce Johnson. Occam's razor would suggest the latter.

I think the real issue here is - how can we be sure it's real or not? There's no way of knowing whether this is real or not. Are we supposed to take Steve's word for it? What's to stop other people from making similar claims? People love making shit up about Chris and using that as a way to get attention for themselves or in Steve's case, to try and get into PVCC. The CWCki was designed purposely to separate truth and fact and that's why I take this sort of thing seriously, namely that I don't like things of dubious origins to be cited as facts on here.

But also, let's consider - why the hell is this so damn important? I mean, it's just Steve saying "Chris says you're a pedophile" and Johnson says "No I'm not." Is that really startling? Will this totally change the way we look at Chris's claim? You know what? Even if he was a pedophile, do you really expect him to admit to a strange he molested children? So his confession says nothing really. I think that a reader of the CWCki should be familiar with Chris's track record with memory in that he tends to remember things in his favor (like that he was a Pokemon gym leader vs. Lucas and Mimms's claim that he only did it one time when all the regular people were out), plus that [[Wikipedia:Repressed_memory|repressed memories]] in general can be dubious and that it's very easy to construct pseudo-memories. Let's be VERY generous and let's say that Chris was indeed molested by Bruce Johnson. Does this really excuse his homophobia? I'd say no. True, it'd be a more valid reason than thinking that you can "turn" gay but I think that really only justifies not liking one particular gay person. Let's say a black person robs me - does this justify me being racist to all black people? No, that'd be silly, just because one particular black person harmed me doesn't mean I should hate blacks as a groups. Same thing applies to Chris and gays.

Side note - Steve, don't break up one of my posts, because it looks like you wrote that whole bit when I in fact did.

In regards to your comment, you're right, this isn't like someone serving coffee - it's much weirder. It's more like if a complete stranger approached you on the street and asked you about the guy who sat two seats in back of you in English class and demanding you tell them every single detail about them. No, Chris isn't a celebrity, he's our bizarre obsession and we need to be honest with ourselves, it's sorta weird. If it wasn't for trolling, Chris would be an ordinary, dull person, albeit with some eccentricities but just an ordinary person who you might look at a few extra seconds if you were to pass him by but not a celebrity by normal standards. If you think it's normal to contact people who vaguely know people from ages ago and ask them for every single detail about said person, they'd probably think you're some sort of stalker or there's something mental with you.

So should we have this tidbit on the article? Like I said, I don't think it really adds anything. If it's generating this much furious debate, I don't think it'd be wise to include it. This isn't about me not being convinced, it's about not convincing the CWCki community as a whole. Like I said, I don't think we're losing out on anything major here.

Those are my thoughts at least. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 05:20, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

Why not include it? Isn't there an inherent interest to here Johnson's response even though it is what we'd assume it would be? It can only make an article stronger. Take for example a New York Times article about an alleged criminal, it will always make a note that they contacted the accused, even if the person simply replies with a refusal to comment.

Including Johnson's comments in the article helps verify what people suspect about Chris (he made this incident up). Isn't further information/confirmation better than none?

As far as proving the facebook message was not some photoshop, I'm still offering Champ access to the acount so that I can prove I am not doctoring things (and if I was wouldn't you expect the details to be a lot juicier?)--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:41, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
::: Seriously, why are you trying so hard for this? I'm pretty sure anyone who reads what Chris thinks about Bruce would naturally assume that Bruce didn't actually touch Chris inappropriately and that Chris's screams were not recorded for Bruce's amusement... --[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 21:15, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I've already explained myself. What is the harm in including it?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:46, 26 June 2012 (PDT)

So would you like the account info? I'd like to definitively prove that this is real and move on.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:26, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

* I don't think anyone doubts that you received the message, the uncertainty lies in whether the account you received it from is genuine which cannot be proved by someone logging into your FB account. And also whether it's important enough to go on the CWCki anyway. [[User:Samboy|Samboy]] 02:07, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

The what's wrong with the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? We've already established that there's an incredibly slim chance that it's a fake account, and this would reflect that small margin of error.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:41, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

* Ehhhh ... I'm still inclined to basically agree with Champ in the respect that this isn't really all that important and we're not losing out on anything major by not including it. I too also wonder why you're so insistent on this. Is this really so important that it's been worth the eight days of discussion thus far? That it's worth giving your Facebook info to someone to prove the authenticity of a point that is almost unanimously considered too minor to really be worth the effort? Which to me, I might add, seems an awful lot like something -Chris- would do, or would have done in the past. Honestly, the more you insist on having this put in the CWCki, the more skeptical I am and the more I feel that, for you, this is less about documenting things related to Chris and more about trying to boost your cred and adding more contributions to your credit. Or, like Champ already pointed out, trying to get into PVCC. Near as I can figure, the only one who is determined to see this in the CWCki is you. --[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 12:52, 28 June 2012 (PDT)
**This. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 05:39, 29 June 2012 (PDT)

*Alright fine, you don't want it, I'll stop pushing it. Champ can you let me back on the message board? I didn't violate any rules and it's been two weeks already.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:05, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*You broke the rule about being a sperg. If you wanna go talk about Chris, why not try /cwc/? I'm sure they'll love you there.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:45, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*That's okay I'm content without being a member of either and just editing the cwicki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:08, 30 June 2012 (PDT)

User talk:Champthom

2012-07-10T06:23:06Z

Negi Springfield: /* Permanently Banned from Message Board */

Talk to me.

Be sure to check out the archives as well:

'''Archive:''' [[User:Champthom/Archive 1|1]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 2|2]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 3|3]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 4|4]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 5|5]] [[User:Champthom/Archive 6|6]]

== Champ, I mean it now ==
When I come on here and see that people like [[User talk:Steve Landcleamer|this mouthbreather]] have been fucking with pages while being told not to and spamming pictures of furry porn that we for some reason allow on here, and yet I have the power to neither delete the image or ban the sperg, it cuts me deep. I'm on here often enough and I've already contributed a lot to the wiki. Can you throw some Jerkop powers my way so I can sort this shit out in future? We don't have nearly enough active mods and this place seems to have this kind of shit all the time. I mean this seriously Champ, I think the CWCki could benefit a lot from more Jerkops. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:09, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
:Before you answer him, Champ, keep in mind that I've also been here a long time and am also actively contributing; so if you decided to give Old meme jerkop rights, I sure would appreciate receiving them as well. Just saying. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 09:24, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

*You both make good points. Could you point out the furry image though, the only image I've seen by him is that picture of Chris ejaculating on Anna's face, which I've incidentally deleted because I don't think it really improves the Anna article. Anyways, about quality in general - I've discussed this issue with Anonymax, and this goes for the both of you, that as regular users you have all the tools needed to improve the quality of the CWCki. If there's an incidence such as an edit war going on, you're welcome to ask any of the admins to step in to resolve the issue. For these reasons, I don't think it's needed to add more jerkops or admins for these reasons. However, if it ever got out of control, then I would consider making someone a quality control jerkop to enforce quality standards. However, I think for the most part you all have the tools you need, just keep making good edits and reverting shit like you have been doing and I think that should be sufficient.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 22:11, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
**He's probably talking about [[:Image:Sonichu.jpg|this picture]], which was spammed on [[CWCki:Privacy policy]]. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 23:46, 20 April 2012 (PDT)

== Deletion of Fail; Effects ==

Would it be necessary to organize a project of some kind to remove red "fail" pipes from pages across the CWCki? --[[User:IwegalBadnik|IwegalBadnik]] 11:27, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
*[http://www.sonichu.com/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Fail&limit=500 Here they all are]. Clean them at your leisure. --[[User:T K 19|T K 19]] 11:57, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
:[[User:Anonybot|Anonybot]] is working on it. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 14:41, 23 April 2012 (PDT)

Fail article deleted, stupid page names corrected, Champ finally got around to deleting the furry porn. It's been a good week. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:39, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
*At least SOMEONE is happy.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 04:18, 25 April 2012 (PDT)

==Why did you delete the article on Kim?==
She is as notable as any of the gal pals, and all the info IS public, coming from the Kacey calls.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:03, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know the Kim from the Kacey calls is the same Kim Wilson? Kim is a fairly common name. You're also assuming a lot of things, like Kim is ScarletSanctum when you have no proof of that, and you're including a lot of things that are rumors like how some apology video was because Kim was upset. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:04, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

*1. Chris states her name is Kim Wilson in one of the Kacey calls.
*2. ScarletSanctum is Kim's youtube handle, as stated in [[SingStar Challenge]].
*3. Chris addresses in that video that he upset Kim and Kacey with the previous video.

And if the name was an issue why not just redirect the page to "Kim"?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:17, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know that ScarletSanctum is Kim? Does Chris explicitly mention it? Also does Chris specifically say Kim in that video in that it upset her? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:23, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

Chris does explicitly mention it. Look at this dialouge in [[Kacey Call 1]]:
*Chris: Yeah. So you know uh, Kim, you know uh, how she, uh, yeah you know, uh, Kim, I actually heard that Kim and her friend Logan actually live in the Charlton area close to the downtown mall, you know? So if you ever wanted to look her up and, you know, just talk to her, you know, find about more about the impostor for me, or you know, see what her opinion of me is on the Internet from her point of view...
*Kacey: Oh, you want me to do some undercover stuff? Chris, that is so sweet of you! You know how much I wanted to get involved.
*Chris: Oh yeah, sure. You know that ScarletSanctum account? That's hers.
*Kacey: Okay, no, I will totally, totally message her. It's Kim Woods, you said?
*Chris: No, Kim Wilson. Totally. Message her, talk to her all about me.

As far as making the video in response to offending Kim, he also implicitly states this:

"Uh, I dedicate this video to uh, Logan. Boyfriend of my gal-pal, Kim. Yeah, anyway uh, I've--I just wanted to uh, apologize for uh...offending you in anyway"

He could also be referring to offending Logan, but either way why through the baby out with the bathwater?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 23:35, 4 May 2012 (PDT)
*Let me think about it. In the meantime, I've made a [[User:Steve Landcleamer/Kim|subpage]] for you in the meantime.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:39, 4 May 2012 (PDT)

So is there any hold up or is the page good to go? I've answered all your questions and it seems to meet all the requirements.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:32, 5 May 2012 (PDT)
*Don't you think it might be a little bit imprudent to make a page about Kim?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 17:58, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Why would it be imprudent? All the information is public and sourced. All the other gal pals have pages, so what would the problem be?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:37, 5 May 2012 (PDT)

*Well?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)
*Good God, first learn some patience, this isn't a life and death issue. Second of all, let me put it this way - in your own words, the supposed Kim calls are unreleased. Why do you think that is?--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:18, 8 May 2012 (PDT)

Because "she"'s obviously still trying to troll Chris. Regardless, that's beside the point, while the calls haven't been released, all the information in the article has. You initially deleted it under the guise that is was "Not notable, not based on public information", but we both know that that's clearly not the cause. My page seemed to meet all the guidelines, so based on Cwicki guidelines, what is objectionable about it?

I'm sorry if I seem impatient, I just find this quelling of already public information to be pretty ridiculous and counter productive to the CWCki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 14:43, 8 May 2012 (PDT)
*Based on my discussions with Canine and Anonymax, I have decided to restore the article. Remember, the CWCki is form Chris's POV so Kim isn't a troll, she has not publicly declared herself to be a troll to Chris. I'd also avoid posting on /cwc/ and CWCki Forums when you make an article on a delicate topic like this.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:09, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

===If I may step in and say a piece===
I know I may not be towing the party line by saying this Champ, but Land has a point here. This is all information that was technically on the wiki anyway, just in out of the way places. Personally, I have no problem with covering things up for trolling purposes, because I understand the need to do so and I'm not one to whine about dang dirty stonecutters, but we have information on Kim here already. I don't care which side of the fence you're on Champ, I'll just go with what you say, but you've got to at least be consistent. Either allow the article outright, or if you object to some of the content in the article being made public, censor it and then allow the censored version to be posted. Your decision is final and no-one would be able to stop you, so I don't know what you're worried about. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:22, 9 May 2012 (PDT)
*True, I realize this, but the issue is that there's a good reason that Kim doesn't already have an article, mostly for [[A_Quick_Guide_to_CWCki#Privacy|privacy reasons]] which is indeed already covered. I'm trying to convey that subtly. Remember, Chris reads the CWCki, and loose lips sink ships. I don't think "we" released the Kacey calls, Canine tells me it was all dropped by Liquid's twin brother so it's not like we were able to filter through everything to see if anything was objectionable.

:This is a difficult decision and I need to discuss it with Canine a bit more, unfortunately we have conflicting schedules so I'll try and catch him tonight.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 06:31, 9 May 2012 (PDT)

==Chris's POV==
*Thank you for restoring the Kim article. I am wondering something concerning what you said about the cwicki supposed to be from Chris's point of view. Why do articles like [[Obesity]] state that Chris is fat? He's said multiple times that he does not think he is. There are lots of other examples like this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:07, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

[[Chris and reality]] would be the best example of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 18:13, 11 May 2012 (PDT)
::We go by what Chris thinks/says unless we have decent evidence to the contrary. With his obesity, we have more than enough evidence to support this. --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 01:04, 12 May 2012 (PDT)

==Permanently Banned from Message Board==
I really don't understand this at all. Please respond to the email I sent you.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 16:21, 6 May 2012 (PDT)

Never mind one of the other mods took care of this.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:39, 7 May 2012 (PDT)

I have a similar problem and would like to be unbanned. [[User:Negi Springfield|Negi Springfield]] 23:23, 9 July 2012 (PDT)

== Comms ==

I'm on IRC a lot and today is my day off work so if you're around so am I! --[[User:Anonymax|Anonymax]] 02:19, 11 May 2012 (PDT)

== can I help? ==
Hey I have a capture card that does 720p,1800p,ect and wanted to know if I could use it to help (lbp videos,screen shots) does anything need to be rerecorded? also I'm moving soon so if you could say something in the next week or so (before I have to pack my computer up) that would be great. [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)
* Sorry it took a day to get back to you, just had to think as I do appreciate your gumption. To be honest though, I can't think of anything in particular, BUT that's just to the best of my knowledge. Head over to [[CWCki:General|the community portal]] and ask there, there might be some people to have some ideas. Just do me one teensy favor - be sure to sign your posts (that's four ~ in a row) so we know who you are when you post. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 07:29, 30 May 2012 (PDT)
* thanks! [[User:Blaziken|Blaziken]] 09:14, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

==Bruce Johnson==
The Bruce Johnson thing is real. I don't even care about the PVCC anymore. I just want you to know I'm not making up what I added to the cwicki. Would you like a wider screenshot of the facebook convo?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:26, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*How do you know it's the real Bruce Johnson? Or rather, why should we trust you? I could easily have made a Bruce Johnson account to fool you. Even if it is real, do we really need it? All it boils down to is Johnson saying he's not a pedophile contrary to what Chris said. Is this really a startling revelation, that Chris said something negative about someone and it's not true? Do we really need to confirm this, in light of Chris's history? --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:36, 20 June 2012 (PDT)
*'Sup bitches, guess who's back? Champy, thought I'd drop in to tell you that under the "no shit is too minor" policy, (which you should really get rid of if it enrages you so), we do indeed need to confirm everything if possible. That said this is still probably bullshit, and confirming this still isn't your job. If you want my two cents, give Landcleamer a chance to convince you of its authenticity at least. I'm sure you have high standards for what you'd accept as convincing proof, so either someone else will go out of their way to contribute something valid, or he can fail to do so and you can say no again. Worst case scenario, Steve Landcleamer turns out to be the weenest of ween trolls and goes through a lot of work to convince you of something fairly inconsequential that can be removed if it later turns out to be fake anyway. The way I see it, this isn't a real problem for you either way. Let the monkey dance. Also, your insulting summaries were hilarious. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 02:12, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
:*I forgot to add in the summary that our friend Steve here wanted to be let into PVCC on the basis of this "startling" revelation. As I've said before, "no shit is too minor" should mean that we don't overlook things, not that we need to get third party confirmation on everything. Anyone who's familiar with Chris knows that his memory isn't totally accurate and he's been known to bullshit. Given that Chris has called Michael Synder a Jew, does this mean we have to contact Michael Synder and confirm whether or not he is a Jew? Do we need to contact Mary Lee Walsh to make sure she's not in fact secretly a witch planning on banning true love from Virginia? It should be pretty obvious that Johnson probably isn't a pedophile, and what does his admission of not being a pedophile say? He could be lying for all we know, I'm not saying he's a pedophile, he probably isn't, but his admission of not being a pedophile shouldn't be startling. I mean, did you expect him to say "Chris got me, I'm a kiddy piddler, I love little boys and molesting them as they sit on my lap and I do horrible profane things to them." Of course the answer is "no," why do we need to have confirmation of this?
::As I've said before, I don't like people bothering Chris tangentially related to Chris about stuff. I think having known Chris is punishment enough, it doesn't help to have epic ween trolls like Steve here think they're gonna get into PVCC on the basis of harassing these people and asking them for information about Chris. I think it's pretty damn weird and spergy to do this, that is to contact people with tangential relations to Chris and ask them details about Chris. Someone on the CWCki Forums is like "No, it's not weird, it's just like liking any celebrity like the Kardashians." Here's the thing - I don't think celebrity magazines are hunting down the lady who served one of those Kardashian people coffee and doing a full length interview. It's bizarre, I would be weirded out if some person went up to and wanted me to tell them everything I know about some person I vaguely remember from years ago.
::This isn't exactly someone who served Chris coffee, it's a major figure in Christory.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::Burden of proof is on Steve and he's on shakey ground. I don't trust him one bit. I don't like having things that could very easily be false on the CWCki because it hurts our reputation and people already distrust the CWCki as it is, I don't need to give them more reason to distrust it. I don't want to give people an incentive to make up fake bullshit and post it on the CWCki with the thought they'll be declared an epic ween troll for getting "new" "content" and that they'll get into PVCC and that mommy and daddy will finally love them because they'll no longer be wastes of human flesh.
::You have to REALLY convince me here, Steve. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 03:18, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Hey, no objections from me. Steve wants to dig up trivial information to try and get into PVCC, that's his business. It's not like it would at all harm the CWCki to put up a single quote from the man if it does turn out to be true. Though really, you need to do something about the abundance of ween trolls trying to get into PVCC, or even just normal idiots desperately begging for it, like 16BitAlex. Maybe the guys in the forum itself or on IRC get a good laugh out of them, but I personally just get depressed when I see people like Stevey-boy cluttering the CWCki recent changes, desperately pursuing some unattainable goal by making bullshit edits and whining as hard as possible on talk pages. It wastes your time, it wastes mine, it's rather sad, and it's not even entertaining enough for the guys on /cwc/ to get more than a single thread from it. All in all, a pathetic affair for all involved. I would suggest temp-banning Pipecleaner if he continues to make a nuisance of himself after this, under your "Drama whoring" clause. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 06:13, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Champ, you have my email. This might be a dumb idea on my part, but I'm willing to give you the facebook login information so you can see the message for yourself. I'm willing to trust you to not fuck with the account, just to go into the private messages and verify the authenticity. After that can I be allowed back to the cwicki forum, under the understanding that I'll never ask to join the PVCC again?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 07:50, 21 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I think /cwc/ has made a good point, a point I have, is that - what did you expect him to say? Of course he's going to say he didn't molest Chris, even if he did molest Chris he's not going to admit it to some stranger. So having him say that he didn't do it isn't saying much, because either way he'll deny it and that really doesn't add anything to the discussion. And like I said, given Chris's background, we know he exaggerates things, and that his recollection of events aren't always the most reliable, do we need to actually get confirmation of this?
:::Ignoring the issue you wanted to get into PVCC, I don't see what it really adds to the discussion. I also don't want to encourage people to hassle people connected to Chris to get information.
:::If people feel like it absolutely, positively must remain in the article, I'd say something like "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..." or something like that so people can interpret it however they please. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 02:38, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Alright, can we keep it in under that wording?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:34, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::* How do we even know it was from Bruce anyway? I'm not doubting Steve Landcleamer has a message on his facebook, I'm 100% sure that if anyone where to get onto his facebook they would find said message...I'm doubting that it's Bruce. People have been faking to be people Chris knows for quite a while (like Megan), this wouldn't be a first.--[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 09:10, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Why would someone make an entire fake facebook account full of pictures and friends, on the random change that years after its creation someone recognizes them as Chris Chan's old principal, just so they can dish out false information? If that was the case surely they wouldn't have just said that Chris is a liar and insane.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 10:43, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
::*May I ask a question? Even if you did successfully contact Chris's old principal, why was the only thing you could ask "R u pedo lol?". The big questions about Chris's time at NGE are "Why was he sent to the principal?", "Why exactly did they record his screams, was it because he was a repeat offender?", "Why was he transferred there from Greene County Primary?", and "Were the principal's lap incident and scream recording incident the same incident?". Any of those would be worth adding to the CWCki, and it would have cleared away most of the fog surrounding the event. Instead you asked for information that everyone already knew. It's like you stumbled into a garden containing hundreds of delicious alien fruits and came back with a half-eaten ordinary banana.--[[User:MoarLurk|MoarLurk]] 15:00, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::Firstly, if you read the screenshot, you'll see I did ask him what really went down with Chris being sent to his office and having his screams recorded. All Johnson says is Chris is liar. Secondly I figured asking private information out of the blue about a former student would get no answer, by connecting it to the fact that Chris is getting sued by Snyder (who he also claimed was a pedophile), the message comes across as a concerned citizen looking out for Mr. Johnson, rather than some creep obsessed with Chris, and thus got a reply.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 13:56, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*I would also add that just because the Facebook profile is full of pictures and friends doesn't mean it isn't fake. It could just be a -really- good fake. The kind of fake that leaves no obvious evidence that makes it easy to discern as a fake. As to why someone would have done it, stranger and less tactically sound things have happened, enough that I can conceive of and not be surprised by someone doing it for exactly the reasons you mentioned, regardless of the lack of point in doing so. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 15:17, 22 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I will be happy to provide you a link to the facebook page, along with it's postings dating years back, and you still tell me this is can all be chalked up to an elaborate troll scheme.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*You don't need to. I checked the page in its entirety (at least as much as I had access to) before I posted here, and did again before posting this. I think this is more of a difference of opinion than anything: the factors that convince you that it is real (profile in existence since 2008, existence of friends and wall posts, etc), don't automatically convince me. Like 4Macie said, if this is a fake, it is hardly the first time someone has done it. I'll also reiterate my opinion that a -really- good fake will not have any obvious signs that it is a fake. I'm not saying that the profile is fake, just that there isn't any compelling evidence that it isn't. My official position is that it exists, and people more savvy and/or more connected than I can verify the truth of it all if they choose to. Whether it is or it isn't, I'm inclined to agree with Champthom in that Bruce Johnson not being a pedophile is hardly an earth-shattering surprise. At best, it's just (allegedly) confirming something everybody but Chris already believed to be true. -[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 17:51, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
::*Does anyone object to keeping this info under the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? --[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 15:43, 23 June 2012 (PDT)
:::*I don't think we should put it on here at all until Champthom is convinced it's real. Also; epic ween, brah.. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 03:33, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

===My thoughts===
I think the wrong focus here is whether it's indeed real or not. Supposedly this Facebook profile has been around a while, has plenty of photos, etc. What motive is there for someone to go into such detail and for what purposes? It's pretty easy why someone would want to impersonate someone like Megan or someone Chris knew from high school - so Chris will see these people, decide to talk to them, and they'd then be able to troll Chris. What purpose is there for someone faking Bruce Johnson? Why would Chris decide to contact Bruce Johnson? I can only really imagine Chris deciding 1) to look up Johnson and 2) taking the effort to contact him mostly to say something like "You molested me you pedofork!" and mind you, Chris is pretty lazy so he wouldn't go to that much hassle. So we have to possibilities - 1) someone has planned since 2008 to troll Chris and has created a believable Facebook profile, all for the motive of trolling Chris or 2) it's actually Bruce Johnson. Occam's razor would suggest the latter.

I think the real issue here is - how can we be sure it's real or not? There's no way of knowing whether this is real or not. Are we supposed to take Steve's word for it? What's to stop other people from making similar claims? People love making shit up about Chris and using that as a way to get attention for themselves or in Steve's case, to try and get into PVCC. The CWCki was designed purposely to separate truth and fact and that's why I take this sort of thing seriously, namely that I don't like things of dubious origins to be cited as facts on here.

But also, let's consider - why the hell is this so damn important? I mean, it's just Steve saying "Chris says you're a pedophile" and Johnson says "No I'm not." Is that really startling? Will this totally change the way we look at Chris's claim? You know what? Even if he was a pedophile, do you really expect him to admit to a strange he molested children? So his confession says nothing really. I think that a reader of the CWCki should be familiar with Chris's track record with memory in that he tends to remember things in his favor (like that he was a Pokemon gym leader vs. Lucas and Mimms's claim that he only did it one time when all the regular people were out), plus that [[Wikipedia:Repressed_memory|repressed memories]] in general can be dubious and that it's very easy to construct pseudo-memories. Let's be VERY generous and let's say that Chris was indeed molested by Bruce Johnson. Does this really excuse his homophobia? I'd say no. True, it'd be a more valid reason than thinking that you can "turn" gay but I think that really only justifies not liking one particular gay person. Let's say a black person robs me - does this justify me being racist to all black people? No, that'd be silly, just because one particular black person harmed me doesn't mean I should hate blacks as a groups. Same thing applies to Chris and gays.

Side note - Steve, don't break up one of my posts, because it looks like you wrote that whole bit when I in fact did.

In regards to your comment, you're right, this isn't like someone serving coffee - it's much weirder. It's more like if a complete stranger approached you on the street and asked you about the guy who sat two seats in back of you in English class and demanding you tell them every single detail about them. No, Chris isn't a celebrity, he's our bizarre obsession and we need to be honest with ourselves, it's sorta weird. If it wasn't for trolling, Chris would be an ordinary, dull person, albeit with some eccentricities but just an ordinary person who you might look at a few extra seconds if you were to pass him by but not a celebrity by normal standards. If you think it's normal to contact people who vaguely know people from ages ago and ask them for every single detail about said person, they'd probably think you're some sort of stalker or there's something mental with you.

So should we have this tidbit on the article? Like I said, I don't think it really adds anything. If it's generating this much furious debate, I don't think it'd be wise to include it. This isn't about me not being convinced, it's about not convincing the CWCki community as a whole. Like I said, I don't think we're losing out on anything major here.

Those are my thoughts at least. --[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 05:20, 25 June 2012 (PDT)

Why not include it? Isn't there an inherent interest to here Johnson's response even though it is what we'd assume it would be? It can only make an article stronger. Take for example a New York Times article about an alleged criminal, it will always make a note that they contacted the accused, even if the person simply replies with a refusal to comment.

Including Johnson's comments in the article helps verify what people suspect about Chris (he made this incident up). Isn't further information/confirmation better than none?

As far as proving the facebook message was not some photoshop, I'm still offering Champ access to the acount so that I can prove I am not doctoring things (and if I was wouldn't you expect the details to be a lot juicier?)--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:41, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
::: Seriously, why are you trying so hard for this? I'm pretty sure anyone who reads what Chris thinks about Bruce would naturally assume that Bruce didn't actually touch Chris inappropriately and that Chris's screams were not recorded for Bruce's amusement... --[[User:4Macie|4Macie]] 21:15, 25 June 2012 (PDT)
:::I've already explained myself. What is the harm in including it?--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:46, 26 June 2012 (PDT)

So would you like the account info? I'd like to definitively prove that this is real and move on.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 17:26, 27 June 2012 (PDT)

* I don't think anyone doubts that you received the message, the uncertainty lies in whether the account you received it from is genuine which cannot be proved by someone logging into your FB account. And also whether it's important enough to go on the CWCki anyway. [[User:Samboy|Samboy]] 02:07, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

The what's wrong with the wording Champ suggested, "From a Facebook message purportedly from Bruce Johnson..."? We've already established that there's an incredibly slim chance that it's a fake account, and this would reflect that small margin of error.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 06:41, 28 June 2012 (PDT)

* Ehhhh ... I'm still inclined to basically agree with Champ in the respect that this isn't really all that important and we're not losing out on anything major by not including it. I too also wonder why you're so insistent on this. Is this really so important that it's been worth the eight days of discussion thus far? That it's worth giving your Facebook info to someone to prove the authenticity of a point that is almost unanimously considered too minor to really be worth the effort? Which to me, I might add, seems an awful lot like something -Chris- would do, or would have done in the past. Honestly, the more you insist on having this put in the CWCki, the more skeptical I am and the more I feel that, for you, this is less about documenting things related to Chris and more about trying to boost your cred and adding more contributions to your credit. Or, like Champ already pointed out, trying to get into PVCC. Near as I can figure, the only one who is determined to see this in the CWCki is you. --[[User:Perpetual Lurker|Perpetual Lurker]] 12:52, 28 June 2012 (PDT)
**This. --[[User:Old meme|Old meme]] 05:39, 29 June 2012 (PDT)

*Alright fine, you don't want it, I'll stop pushing it. Champ can you let me back on the message board? I didn't violate any rules and it's been two weeks already.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 20:05, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*You broke the rule about being a sperg. If you wanna go talk about Chris, why not try /cwc/? I'm sure they'll love you there.--[[User:Champthom|Champthom]] 23:45, 29 June 2012 (PDT)
:*That's okay I'm content without being a member of either and just editing the cwicki.--[[User:Steve Landcleamer|Steve Landcleamer]] 19:08, 30 June 2012 (PDT)