Talk:Enablers - Revision history

Blue Bully: When I thought more about it I decided against it

2020-12-17T05:47:41Z

When I thought more about it I decided against it

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	::In that case, I think all the other Tetrad articles should have an overview section to get a feel for each of them, not just the enablers.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)		::In that case, I think all the other Tetrad articles should have an overview section to get a feel for each of them, not just the enablers.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


	~~==Classification of enabler==~~
	~~----~~

	I know this may seem stupid, but is enabling Chris's messiah complex any worse than enabling his unrealistic expectations about women and dating like the gal pal and sweetheart personas? I mean obviously, the idea guys did a lot more damage than say Kacey, but that seems more of a problem of what you do with the power and less of how you got it. If Chris is just as gullible to someone who will tell him what he wants to hear, then his suspicion of Gal pals is just a band-aid and he really hasn't learned his lesson. I'm not saying Enabling is alright. The problem to me isn't the means but the ends, times have changed. When once Chris was young (relatively) and made to hilariously trip on his own ill-conceived convictions, now the innocence is lost, he is a sad aging paranoid man desperately guzzling his delusions in a frenzied attempt to escape the hell of his own making. That got kind of sad but the idea is that the article should stress that the problem is with Chris, that he decided to double down on his delusions, and that no joke can match the cruel punchline he unwittingly wrote with his own life.

	~~I'm not quite sure how to go about this so I'm open to suggestions~~

Blue Bully at 05:42, 17 December 2020

2020-12-17T05:42:36Z

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	::In that case, I think all the other Tetrad articles should have an overview section to get a feel for each of them, not just the enablers.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)		::In that case, I think all the other Tetrad articles should have an overview section to get a feel for each of them, not just the enablers.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


			==Classification of enabler==
			----

			I know this may seem stupid, but is enabling Chris's messiah complex any worse than enabling his unrealistic expectations about women and dating like the gal pal and sweetheart personas? I mean obviously, the idea guys did a lot more damage than say Kacey, but that seems more of a problem of what you do with the power and less of how you got it. If Chris is just as gullible to someone who will tell him what he wants to hear, then his suspicion of Gal pals is just a band-aid and he really hasn't learned his lesson. I'm not saying Enabling is alright. The problem to me isn't the means but the ends, times have changed. When once Chris was young (relatively) and made to hilariously trip on his own ill-conceived convictions, now the innocence is lost, he is a sad aging paranoid man desperately guzzling his delusions in a frenzied attempt to escape the hell of his own making. That got kind of sad but the idea is that the article should stress that the problem is with Chris, that he decided to double down on his delusions, and that no joke can match the cruel punchline he unwittingly wrote with his own life.

			I'm not quite sure how to go about this so I'm open to suggestions

PsychoNerd054: /* Warning the autistic */

2020-04-17T22:22:31Z

Warning the autistic

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:22, 17 April 2020
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	:It is something worth looking into: I think it could go into a section called "Overview"? --[[User:Little Owl\|Little Owl]] ([[User talk:Little Owl\|talk]]) 12:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)		:It is something worth looking into: I think it could go into a section called "Overview"? --[[User:Little Owl\|Little Owl]] ([[User talk:Little Owl\|talk]]) 12:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

			::In that case, I think all the other Tetrad articles should have an overview section to get a feel for each of them, not just the enablers.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 22:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Little Owl: /* Warning the autistic */

2020-04-13T12:01:20Z

Warning the autistic

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:01, 13 April 2020
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	:Maybe that can be discussed in the motives section of the article under “To share their fantasies with Chris.” This can also be discussed further under the arguments section under “Getting sucked into Drama.”[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 05:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)		:Maybe that can be discussed in the motives section of the article under “To share their fantasies with Chris.” This can also be discussed further under the arguments section under “Getting sucked into Drama.”[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 05:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

			:It is something worth looking into: I think it could go into a section called "Overview"? --[[User:Little Owl\|Little Owl]] ([[User talk:Little Owl\|talk]]) 12:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

PsychoNerd054: /* Warning the autistic */

2020-04-13T05:50:16Z

Warning the autistic

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	Many of Chris's noteworthy enablers in the last year, besides failtrolls, have been autistic. The gullible language interpretation is obvious from their doomed battles on Kiwi Farms, and given the disability's nature, they may well seriously believe that the internet is playing [[Kick the Autistic]] and/or that Chris's nonsense is real. While it is obvious for the rest of us what is going on, should we have a section aimed specifically at autists to explain this plainly and how easily they can find themselves in over their heads? These people are evidently less likely to listen to normal reasons not to enable. [[User:ChanOfTartary\|ChanOfTartary]] ([[User talk:ChanOfTartary\|talk]]) 14:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)		Many of Chris's noteworthy enablers in the last year, besides failtrolls, have been autistic. The gullible language interpretation is obvious from their doomed battles on Kiwi Farms, and given the disability's nature, they may well seriously believe that the internet is playing [[Kick the Autistic]] and/or that Chris's nonsense is real. While it is obvious for the rest of us what is going on, should we have a section aimed specifically at autists to explain this plainly and how easily they can find themselves in over their heads? These people are evidently less likely to listen to normal reasons not to enable. [[User:ChanOfTartary\|ChanOfTartary]] ([[User talk:ChanOfTartary\|talk]]) 14:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

			:Maybe that can be discussed in the motives section of the article under “To share their fantasies with Chris.” This can also be discussed further under the arguments section under “Getting sucked into Drama.”[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 05:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

ChanOfTartary: /* Warning the autistic */ new section

2020-04-12T14:19:27Z

Warning the autistic: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:19, 12 April 2020
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	:Maybe. I always thought of an enabler as a wannabee troll who tries to get a page on here by using the outdated technique of manipulating Chris, but perhaps we could expand the definition a bit if needed. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		:Maybe. I always thought of an enabler as a wannabee troll who tries to get a page on here by using the outdated technique of manipulating Chris, but perhaps we could expand the definition a bit if needed. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

			== Warning the autistic ==

			Many of Chris's noteworthy enablers in the last year, besides failtrolls, have been autistic. The gullible language interpretation is obvious from their doomed battles on Kiwi Farms, and given the disability's nature, they may well seriously believe that the internet is playing [[Kick the Autistic]] and/or that Chris's nonsense is real. While it is obvious for the rest of us what is going on, should we have a section aimed specifically at autists to explain this plainly and how easily they can find themselves in over their heads? These people are evidently less likely to listen to normal reasons not to enable. [[User:ChanOfTartary\|ChanOfTartary]] ([[User talk:ChanOfTartary\|talk]]) 14:19, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Hurtful Truth Level at 13:31, 23 December 2019

2019-12-23T13:31:55Z

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	:The article was meant to have the same format as the other Unholy Tetrad articles, which gives a definition of the act, provides examples, gives common justifications, and then provides arguments against them. Those articles also speak directly to the reader. And besides, if we have those sections for each type, I can't imagine providing reasons that have already showed up in the page. Arguments like "You will always assumed to be under bad faith" applies to every type, not just Fantasy Enablers. Furthermore, any the more general arguments are more useful for the page then just giving each type their own justifications and arguements.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:27, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		:The article was meant to have the same format as the other Unholy Tetrad articles, which gives a definition of the act, provides examples, gives common justifications, and then provides arguments against them. Those articles also speak directly to the reader. And besides, if we have those sections for each type, I can't imagine providing reasons that have already showed up in the page. Arguments like "You will always assumed to be under bad faith" applies to every type, not just Fantasy Enablers. Furthermore, any the more general arguments are more useful for the page then just giving each type their own justifications and arguements.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:27, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

			:Fair point on the same format, I didn't realize that the related articles were also written that way. But I think one difference between Enablers and the others is Enablers has different types while A-Logs/Weens/White Knights don't, so Justifications/arguments fit well for those but not as well for Enablers. Maybe we could split the difference and make a Justification/arguments against section "In General" - something like https://i.imgur.com/pGJ9FGZ.png [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 13:31, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

	== Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers? ==		== Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers? ==

PsychoNerd054: /* Sections */

2019-12-23T04:27:20Z

Sections

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	:There are different types of enablers, though. It's murky if motives/criticism for them are mixed together into one section. Like in the current article, all but two of the sections extensively reference manipulating Chris's fantasies, and the only reference to financial enabling is in one standalone section. Also, I feel that the article could be more neutral in tone and shouldn't directly refer to readers (like with the "you" in section titles), that's why I renamed it to Criticism. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 03:39, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		:There are different types of enablers, though. It's murky if motives/criticism for them are mixed together into one section. Like in the current article, all but two of the sections extensively reference manipulating Chris's fantasies, and the only reference to financial enabling is in one standalone section. Also, I feel that the article could be more neutral in tone and shouldn't directly refer to readers (like with the "you" in section titles), that's why I renamed it to Criticism. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 03:39, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

			:The article was meant to have the same format as the other Unholy Tetrad articles, which gives a definition of the act, provides examples, gives common justifications, and then provides arguments against them. Those articles also speak directly to the reader. And besides, if we have those sections for each type, I can't imagine providing reasons that have already showed up in the page. Arguments like "You will always assumed to be under bad faith" applies to every type, not just Fantasy Enablers. Furthermore, any the more general arguments are more useful for the page then just giving each type their own justifications and arguements.[[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:27, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

	== Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers? ==		== Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers? ==

PsychoNerd054 at 04:19, 23 December 2019

2019-12-23T04:19:19Z

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	The [[Guard Dogs]] tried to protect Chris, but their actions could be described as enabling. From the examples [https://www.healthline.com/health/enabler#signs in this list], they took on more than their share of responsibilities, and ignored problematic behavior (in [[Guard Dog chats]] where they ignored Chris's attempts to steer the topic to his fantasyland). The [[Region Ten]] psychiatrist similarly ignored Chris's ranting about his fantasyland and handwaved him through the program instead of intervening. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 04:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		The [[Guard Dogs]] tried to protect Chris, but their actions could be described as enabling. From the examples [https://www.healthline.com/health/enabler#signs in this list], they took on more than their share of responsibilities, and ignored problematic behavior (in [[Guard Dog chats]] where they ignored Chris's attempts to steer the topic to his fantasyland). The [[Region Ten]] psychiatrist similarly ignored Chris's ranting about his fantasyland and handwaved him through the program instead of intervening. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 04:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

	*Maybe. I always thought of an enabler as a wannabee troll who tries to get a page on here by using the outdated technique of manipulating Chris, but perhaps we could expand the definition a bit if needed. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		:Maybe. I always thought of an enabler as a wannabee troll who tries to get a page on here by using the outdated technique of manipulating Chris, but perhaps we could expand the definition a bit if needed. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

PsychoNerd054: /* Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers? */

2019-12-23T04:17:42Z

Are the Guard Dogs and Region Ten psychiatrist enablers?

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:17, 23 December 2019
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	The [[Guard Dogs]] tried to protect Chris, but their actions could be described as enabling. From the examples [https://www.healthline.com/health/enabler#signs in this list], they took on more than their share of responsibilities, and ignored problematic behavior (in [[Guard Dog chats]] where they ignored Chris's attempts to steer the topic to his fantasyland). The [[Region Ten]] psychiatrist similarly ignored Chris's ranting about his fantasyland and handwaved him through the program instead of intervening. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 04:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		The [[Guard Dogs]] tried to protect Chris, but their actions could be described as enabling. From the examples [https://www.healthline.com/health/enabler#signs in this list], they took on more than their share of responsibilities, and ignored problematic behavior (in [[Guard Dog chats]] where they ignored Chris's attempts to steer the topic to his fantasyland). The [[Region Ten]] psychiatrist similarly ignored Chris's ranting about his fantasyland and handwaved him through the program instead of intervening. [[User:Hurtful Truth Level\|Hurtful Truth Level]] ([[User talk:Hurtful Truth Level\|talk]]) 04:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

	*Maybe. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)		*Maybe. I always thought of an enabler as a wannabee troll who tries to get a page on here by using the outdated technique of manipulating Chris, but perhaps we could expand the definition a bit if needed. I think we could potentially cover those in the article, using them as examples for why there is very little use in enabling Chris, even for a good cause. The Guard Dogs are briefly discussed in the article anyway. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|PsychoNerd054]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 04:15, 23 December 2019 (UTC)