User talk:Anaxis/Regarding Fiona - Revision history

PsychoNerd054: /* Revised Fiona page */ new section

2025-04-27T20:45:17Z

Revised Fiona page: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:45, 27 April 2025
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	::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. Also, if we're concerned about infantilizing her, maybe comparing her to a child isn't entirely accurate either. She comes more across as some teenage delinquent that gets caught by the cops for say trespassing into an old abandoned house, not knowing why it's a bad idea but thinks it's fun, but afterwards tries to find some more elaborate means to do the crime again, but to not get caught. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. Also, if we're concerned about infantilizing her, maybe comparing her to a child isn't entirely accurate either. She comes more across as some teenage delinquent that gets caught by the cops for say trespassing into an old abandoned house, not knowing why it's a bad idea but thinks it's fun, but afterwards tries to find some more elaborate means to do the crime again, but to not get caught. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

			== Revised Fiona page ==

			Okay, so I've more or less finished the new and improved page on Fiona. Please tell me if I've missed anything, or if anything needs to be corrected. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 16:45, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

PsychoNerd054 at 16:10, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T16:10:19Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:10, 27 April 2025
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	:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

	::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. Also, if we're concerned about infantilizing her, maybe comparing her to a child isn't entirely accurate either. She comes more across as some delinquent that gets caught by the cops for say trespassing, but afterwards tries to find some more elaborate means to do the crime again, but to not get caught. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. Also, if we're concerned about infantilizing her, maybe comparing her to a child isn't entirely accurate either. She comes more across as some teenage delinquent that gets caught by the cops for say trespassing into an old abandoned house, not knowing why it's a bad idea but thinks it's fun, but afterwards tries to find some more elaborate means to do the crime again, but to not get caught. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

PsychoNerd054 at 16:09, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T16:09:21Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:09, 27 April 2025
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	:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

	::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. Also, if we're concerned about infantilizing her, maybe comparing her to a child isn't entirely accurate either. She comes more across as some delinquent that gets caught by the cops for say trespassing, but afterwards tries to find some more elaborate means to do the crime again, but to not get caught. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

PsychoNerd054 at 14:59, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T14:59:38Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:59, 27 April 2025
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	:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

			::I don't find this unhelpful at all. On the contrary. As you mentioned, there's a sort of complexity to her character that I don't think people really appreciate all that much. If anything, I think discussing and trying to understand these complexities would actually improve the general understanding of Fiona's role with Chris. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 10:59, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

Anaxis: /* Victimhood */

2025-04-27T08:49:31Z

Victimhood

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:49, 27 April 2025
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	==Victimhood==		==Victimhood==
	So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way you worded your explanation also kind of makes it seem like it's more likely only the former, in that she faked being naive and innocent, when it's clear that she's actually far more intelligent than she herself or other people (both supporters and detractors) make her out to be. I'm also suggesting the latter because I do think that's where her being autistic actually WOULD be relevant (social cues and all that junk). [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way you worded your explanation also kind of makes it seem like it's more likely only the former, in that she faked being naive and innocent, when it's clear that she's actually far more intelligent than she herself or other people (both supporters and detractors) make her out to be. I'm also suggesting the latter because I do think that's where her being autistic actually WOULD be relevant (social cues and all that junk). [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

			:You're probably going to find me unhelpful for saying this, but again, I think both of your interpretations are correct. But to be more specific, Fiona being unaware of the danger she was in covers the "victim of circumstance" half of her character, and her playing the victim/fake innocent card covers the "malicious actor" half. When I said that naïve is not the same as stupid, this is basically the dichotomy I was referring to. Fiona was smart enough to know that she needed to play at being innocent and remorseful when she got in trouble, and that persona helped to mask the fact that she intended to continue doing what she was doing when she thought no one was looking. But she was also naïve enough to trust bad actors (like Bella) and believe that she could fix Chris, despite the copious amounts of evidence and warnings from people around her that that was a terrible idea and would end badly for her. As you pointed out, her autism probably played a role in this latter trait of hers, being unable to distinguish between good and bad attention.

			:At risk of infantilizing her, I'd compare Fiona's mindset to a child who got caught doing something dangerous despite a parent's warnings, who then says they're sorry and successfully convince their parents that they won't do it again. But in the child's mind, they fully intend to keep doing the dangerous thing, with the knowledge that they now have to be more careful not to get caught. Because they don't yet understand ''why'' said thing is dangerous, only that their parental figures tell them they shouldn't do it. In other words, the child is naïve to think what they're doing isn't dangerous, but also smart enough to know how to weasel out of trouble or avoid getting caught.

			:Again, I don't want to rob Fiona of her agency here, and I do ultimately hold her accountable for meeting with Chris in spite of everyone who tried to stop her. When I said she was ''both'' things, I didn't really mean it super literally, just that there's an amount of nuance to her character that most people don't appreciate. Because like most human beings, she's complex, a contradiction, ever-evolving, especially given the transitional nature of her age at the time. Smart enough to be manipulative and avoid trouble from rule-enforcers, but naïve enough to think that the people laughing at her were her friends and that contacting Chris could end in any way other than poorly. [[User:Anaxis\|Anaxis]] ([[User talk:Anaxis\|talk]]) 04:49, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

PsychoNerd054 at 06:20, 27 April 2025

2025-04-27T06:20:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:20, 27 April 2025
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	==Victimhood==		==Victimhood==
	So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way you worded your explanation also kind of makes it seem like it's more likely only the former, in that she faked being naive and innocent, when it's clear that she's actually far more intelligent than she herself or other people (both supporters and detractors) make her out to be. [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (EDT)		So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way you worded your explanation also kind of makes it seem like it's more likely only the former, in that she faked being naive and innocent, when it's clear that she's actually far more intelligent than she herself or other people (both supporters and detractors) make her out to be. I'm also suggesting the latter because I do think that's where her being autistic actually WOULD be relevant (social cues and all that junk). [[User:PsychoNerd054\|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054\|talk]]) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (EDT)

PsychoNerd054: Created page with "==Victimhood== So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way y..."

2025-04-27T05:56:23Z

Created page with "==Victimhood== So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way y..."

New page

==Victimhood==
So, for more clarity, when you say Fiona is ''both'' a "hapless victim of happenstance" and a "malicious actor", do you specifically mean it like Fiona played the victim card on a consistent basis, or do you also mean it like she was unaware of when she was in danger when purposefully engaging with bad actors (AKA not realizing when people are laughing AT her and not WITH her)? I get a bit of both when revisiting material that's about her, though the way you worded your explanation also kind of makes it seem like it's more likely only the former, in that she faked being naive and innocent, when it's clear that she's actually far more intelligent than she herself or other people (both supporters and detractors) make her out to be. [[User:PsychoNerd054|Psycho 🐧]] ([[User talk:PsychoNerd054|talk]]) 01:56, 27 April 2025 (EDT)