Talk:Isabella Loretta Janke

Classification

How would you classify her in the Unholy Tetrad? She obviously has weenish and A-Loggy elements about her. FokkerTISM (talk) 06:56, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

• I saw some sort of political compass looking thing for all 4 of them, which I think is a much better model than the one we currently have. I'll have to go find it first. PsychoNerd (talk) 04:43, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Planned Article Order

So with the way things are right now. I am currently hoping for the article to go in this order:

• Introduction to Bella (Introductory Paragraphs)
• Bella meeting Chris ("The Beginning of the End")
• Major Players ("The Everfree Suitress" and "Related People")
  • I feel the Suitress warrants her own section just for how involved she was with Chris.
• The Incest Leaks ("Response to the Incest").
  • I feel this should come after the former, as many of the major players mentioned were somehow involved with twisting up what really happened (Including fabricating an entire set of BDSM sessions between Chris and Barb), and the Suitress was ultimately the one that leaked the incest calls.

Feel free to make further suggestions. PsychoNerd (talk) 04:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• I think the 'Major Players' section can be dissolved and integrated with other sections. It could be moved in between the intro and the scandal section itself, without drawing so much attention to non-CWC matters. A section where it describes how Bella assembled lackies like the Suitress and/or Sean would fit very well right before it gets into the main scandal, and flow a lot better than how it does now.

Additionally, the GiBi section exclusively talks about things that could be covered in 'Aftermath,' and honestly would lend a lot of clarity to the latter section if it were moved there. This whole article has taken form pretty well, but it would be vastly improved by more chronological order.

As for Sean himself, I'm not totally sure about his place here. See here for more of my thoughts on him. --4CentUser (talk) 19:07, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Top quote

I noticed the top quote was edited out by a user that didn't personally feel it fit, to prevent an edit war can we have a vote or something?

Or maybe suggestions for a better fitting one to summarize this person?

I added the quote back in for the moment since many people seemed fine with it but I wont rage if people don't want it there. Necromaster (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2021‎ (UTC)

My objection was mostly about the fact that the top of this page has five different huge objects covering the screen before the reader can even read the infoboxes. That's more than half the screen on my display. Aesthetically, it's a mess. Some of these (Split Off, Ongoing) will be deleted after time, but it's still gonna be really cluttered.

I don't really think a 'reaction image'-like quote from a figure completely unrelated to CWC is so important that it should be included even if it makes the article a mess visually, and it gets kind of close to what Cleftpalete called 'dustbunnying.' I think a quote from someone actually involved with the drama would fit better than this, but again, my main problem is just what it does to the layout. I'd be open to moving the quote to another part of the article, like the section on the incest scandal specifically, if it fits better there. --4CentUser (talk) 19:18, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

ILJ Timeline

To start off with this, the plan will be to add all of the known events between 7/19-8/4-5 should be added to this article. This was roughly around the time where Sean and Bella conspired for the Everfree Northwest stuff. PsychoNerd (talk) 11:25, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Sean Walker

Sean has sections on two separate pages on this wiki - one here, one on the Watchmen page - which are almost completely identical. This makes things confusing in a bunch of ways (sections may not be completely in sync with each other and have different information, different redirects for his name go to different pages, etc). It's also just very clumsy and awkward.

My full proposal and discussion is on the Watchmen talk page. --4CentUser (talk) 18:24, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Carboncoffee99

I may be wrong, but isn't Carboncoffee99 the same person as the WCT? I don't see why that requires a new section. It says so on this image description. --4CentUser (talk) 17:13, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Carboncoffee99 is actually my account. I had it made because I wanted to add to the Watchmen page but didn't want to do it with my main since it involved leaking some info from their Discord group. It was assumed that Carboncoffee99 is a Bella associate because she and her friend talked about an email contact named "coffee"; I've never talked to them. I made up the Carboncoffee99 name only for use as a CWCki account. And it wasn't done to hide the involvement of anyone - just to point out there were four different Lainchus (one of them had not been mentioned in the CWCki at that point, so I felt that leaving out the username didn't change the available information). Sorry about all the confusion. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 05:30, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Does Louis Herz really need his own section?

I'm aware he played a vital role in exposing Bella, but isn't it policy that the sections on her collaborators should be solely about how they relate to Chris? As far as I can tell, he has almost zero bearing on Chris's life. I think the offhand mention I give in the Aftermath section is enough. --4CentUser (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

That was actually the reason I commented the section out. I wasn't sure where he should be mentioned. He should be mentioned due to being a key factor of Bella's exposure, but I wasn't sure if he warrented a subsection in "Associates". Thanks for the suggestion all the same.PsychoNerd (talk) 17:49, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Removal of the "Associates" section entirely

Over the last few months, editors have slowly chipped away at the "Associates" section of the page, and now there's only two entries left - both of whom now have their own articles anyway. If no one objects, I'm just going to completely remove the "Associates" section, and incorporate the relevant parts of it into the timeline in chronological order. For example, I might add new subsections about the Everfree Northwest plot under "Early Interactions" and introduce who the Suitress is there. The page will still link to WCT's and the Suitress's main pages at opportune times so readers can still find the relevant information, and no content is actually lost.

This is a pretty big restructuring, so I just wanted to make sure no one objects before I do anything. --4CentUser (talk) 21:49, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I say go for it, especially since everyone worth documenting now has their own page, and GiBi just gets a mention in the Post-Merge page.PsychoNerd (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Reducing suicide speculation

On this article, as well as in Suitress and Sean Walker, there are lines speculating that a suicide plot is connected to some event or person. In this article, it discusses the fake BDSM text and speculates this is connected to a suicide plot; in the Suitress page, it discusses Bella saying she would record Chris and Suitress, then speculates about suicide; in the Sean page, it speculates that he knew of a suicide plot.

I think such speculation should be removed. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 03:14, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

The plot is pretty much confirmed for Chris, Bella wanted him to do that. I guess the connections to it are more wonky. We ought to weed that out.PsychoNerd (talk) 03:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Extortion

There's a line that says, "It was later revealed that she extorted him out of significant sums of money required for Barb's care." But the source goes to a Kiwi Farms post of someone speculating, "The plan may have been to empty the money which had been put aside for Chris's mother's care".

There's also a line saying Chris didn't have money as he's $200 in debt, which I think can be trimmed - his debt is more than that, and his tugboat still comes in anyway.

Another source on the extortion subject points to a Kiwi Farms thread which references this image. In it, Bella claimed to have "hacked" into Chris's bank account and stolen money, and "got free trips and got him to join a cult and mlp porn on kiwi farms and fly [to florida]". And also to have had some plot to have Chris pay her for sympathy.

Is there proof that this happened outside of what Bella claimed? Chris hadn't been begging for money much during the time Bella had influence which seems to be 2020-2021, in contrast to his frequent begging during the Idea Guys' extortion scheme. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 05:20, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

I think this was part of the reason as to why Chris had illegally taken money from Barb after the incest calls were leaked. It seems likely that's what happened, but I guess we need better citations to confirm this. For now, just put a cite template there.PsychoNerd (talk) 10:45, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Maybe add an "extortion plot" section and quote what she said in the Discord cap? Or a combined "extortion/suicide plot" section. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 16:35, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Everfree plot

The citation for the plot goes to the Kiwi Farms ILJ Summary Thread, and it's mentioned on Item 11 in the list. But according to the citations on Item 11, Bella talks about the Everfree dance and says she'll be photographing. Not seeing a mention of recording sex. Also, how much influence did she have on Suitress and Chris? There's another line in this article that says the Suitress formed a crush organically on Chris, and in the Item 11 citations there's a cropped image of a DM from Chris where he says he talked to [Suitress] about the idea of sex. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 01:45, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Citation 11 is from a snippet of an article from a decade ago, where it describes the Suitress's autism diagnosis. I think the sex tape thing may have been more an assumption by people when Bella said she'd record "everything". I'll remove mentions of this, as this seems to be an overplayed take on what she said.

Oh, by Item 11 I meant the ILJ Summary Thread on Kiwi Farms. It's a list of stuff about Bella and #11 mentions Everfree. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 02:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

I think there's some degree of validity to the "sex tape" though, Bella said on a few occasions she was sexually attracted to the Suitress. PsychoNerd (talk) 02:09, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Rewrite

How much of this really happened?

The article's protip notes that Bella is a habitual liar. Yet most of the article's text takes her words at face value. We should try to separate what she actually did from what she claimed to have done. Maybe a section for "Edgelord persona" or something could be made to place the stuff she claimed. Also, I think the line promoting the ED article should be cut, we shouldn't advertise for another site. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 22:39, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the article needs a massive rewrite, considering what is actually put in there. What Bella has really done is kind of hazy at best, and everyone involved pretty much tried to blame one another for different things.Psycho (talk) 22:44, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

I say we keep the protip though, since it's a pretty crucial factor to take into account for discussing her.Psycho (talk) 23:05, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Agree. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 10:21, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Some stuff that seems questionable... the paragraph of sadistic personal life was exposed not long after Kiwi Farms doxxed her is missing citations or seems to be based on things she herself claimed (animal abuser)... The fetish stuff seems like a toss-up, it could be legit or she might just be claiming it for shock value... The paragraphs about her suicide-pushing cult claim with certainty that she did those things yet the Kiwi Farms reference given only says she "potentially" did, and the references to the KF posting leads to stories that are only tangentially related... the suicide/extortion plot is based on her own claims and the way she describes it makes no sense - so is that legit or is it just bullshit she claims for shock value? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 11:18, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Dog

The conclusion section has this line:

Eventually, Bella herself was doxed, not in small part due to one of Bella's own friends, Louis Herz, posting an image of Bella’s mistreated rescue dog.

However the citation points to a post that doesn't seem to contain the word dog. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

When Spooky Bones made the OP of the original ILJ thread and collaborated with other KF users, sometime in the mix, her watchdog Max was connected to her identity, because she'd bring him up in certain TTU chats. It's alleged that this dog died under her care. Psycho (talk) 18:01, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Intro

The article intro says she is "leader of a trolling ring". What's that based on? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 18:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

This was based on her being the leader of the TTU Chess Club, which in fact involved trolling and bullying people.Psycho (talk) 18:57, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I see. Okay, so that's from this? I think the intro could be rewritten a bit to specify the TTU Discord and mention that they were saying edgy things there and harassing other students. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Deleting portion of Suicide plot section

I believe the sentence about "25 April 2020" should be deleted. It's unclear whether or not Bella is referring to Chris Chandler when she made that remark. According to the reference, which is a Kiwi Farms thread, Bella knew at least two people named Chris - a Discord user and her relative. So she could have been talking about either of them.

The person who provided the log with her remark alleged Bella was referring to Chris Chan, yet the log itself is inconclusive on who she's talking about. In addition, the April 2020 date does not line up with Bella's statement that she got in contact with Chris Chandler in the fall of 2020. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 14:59, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

While I do agree that the two other "Chrises" should be taken into account, I don't think it's much a surprise things don't align with what she says if we're already going to establish that she lies habitually. Not saying that it isn't one of the other "Chrises", just that we probably shouldn't be taking Bella's word on this completely at face value. On the same day as she made that statement, she [also claimed to a Chess Club member in the channel "chess" about "trolling" Chris in that same timespan. Psycho (talk) 19:10, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Agree that her word in general is questionable but is there evidence that contradicts that particular claim? Her interactions with Chris do seem to line up with her claim of getting in contact around fall. If other evidence turns up that conclusively shows she was in contact with Chris in Spring 2020, then we could consider readding the "25 April 2020" line, but for now the notion that she was in contact during April seems flimsy. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 20:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Good call, the earliest confirmed interaction with Chris seems to be when she roleplayed as Ashley Hamer of Curiosity, and has also claimed in both instances that she's been doing this for "almost a year" in July of 2021. I can archive that line in my sandbox in case anything else comes up. Bella's whole relation to Chris is very hard to pinpoint, and a lot of the stuff on here is more or less based on things that were being "uncovered" during a pretty crazy time. I still think there's a good enough chance that she was fucking with Chris to some degree if that "trolling" comment to Allen says anything. Psycho (talk) 21:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I can see the section was deleted, but I have to ask though, I don't think we ever fully evaluated the reliability of Zorgoth. He has claimed to GetInTheRobot (Gunt Gallop on Kiwi Farms) once that he was in fact referring to Chris Chan, and not the cousin or the other Discord user. I'm not really that sure if there's anything that contradicts Zorgoth either.

On an unrelated note, I'm not too sure how it's going to sit that we are essentially claiming that as a matter of fact, she has not been confirmed to be a troll, as those kinds of suggestions have been made in other edits. I think that the fact that she only ever mentioned trolling Chris in the Chess Club still makes it a pretty good possibility that she was trying to fuck with Chris. How exactly, I'm still not entirely sure. I'm only on board with the claim that she likely first interacted with Chris later than April because she claimed both on the Watchman server (where the idea of trying to interact with Chris alone warrants a dox to them), and on the Chess Club that she has, and because of the Ashley Hamer roleplay, which happened in October. Psycho (talk) 21:27, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

On Zorgoth's statement, what I think is questionable is that he claimed Bella was speaking about Chris Chan in the chatlog, but the chatlog itself is inconclusive who she's talking about. How then could he know for sure that Bella was speaking about Chris Chan and not the Chrises she knew? Also, yeah, I think the Ashley thing is trollish enough to back up what Bella said about being a troll. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 22:47, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Everfree

Chris said on 12 July that he had asked Caden if he knew of any Christorians who could help form a posse for "sharing and protection," then on the next day Chris mentioned Bella would be coming with him. Bella subsequently called herself a bodyguard. So since Caden and Bella were associates through Praetor, could Caden have recommended Bella to Chris? Should this be mentioned in the article or is this too tenuous? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 04:33, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

While it's certainly a possibility, I'd say wait until it's verified, especially when Bella's being discussed. A lot of Christory can get pretty muddled from putting stuff that isn't verified on the articles, and a lot of stuff on her is already pretty muddled. Psycho (talk) 04:38, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

TTU Chess Club

What's planned for the TTU Chess Club section? Is there room to mention the Chess Group 15 server as well? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 21:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Basically, yeah. It's mostly supposed to be talk of the activity of Bella, her allies, and her guests in those servers. Louis and Allen's sections are there because they both show up in multiple chats, and I felt it was necessary to include them for added context. Psycho (talk) 21:35, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Are individual sections for Louis and Allen still needed or it is enough to mention them in the Chess Club paragraph? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Is Louis's full name necessary? I believe he is referred to as screennames elsewhere on the CWCki - louize / ternarymercury in Incest fallout chat leaks. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 13:32, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Just call him "Louis". He's not really major enough, every other part of the site just calls him that, and to be consistent with just having Allen's first name on there. Psycho (talk) 13:39, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Merging sections

Since Bella has commented more than once about wanting harm to befall Chris, I think the section in Early interactions about Bella's A-logging could be split off and merged with the Suicide section, maybe titled "A-logging of Chris". Thoughts? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 11:39, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I think make it a sub-section in there. Psycho (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I also think the sections could be merged because she claims "when I try to tell them to get him to cut it off" which seems like a "plot" in the same vein as the stuff she claimed that's in the Suicide section. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 12:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I think there was also a bit where she claims to want Chris to cut his penis off, that should go in the section you're proposing, like with the suicide stuff. Psycho (talk) 12:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Self-assigned roles

Everfree Northwest section says her roles were self-assigned. However, the photographer role appears to be at Chris's request and the bodyguard role could be either Chris's or Bella's phrasing, but Chris did know about it. (Suitress says here that "Christine told me that she was going to have people guarding us") Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 13:06, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I thought we agreed that because no on really assigned that role to her, that meant they were self-assigned. Psycho (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

It's probable that Chris assigned those roles. Bella said she was "obligated" to follow him around to photograph him. And on 12 July, before Chris had found anyone to come with him, he said he was looking to put together a "posse" for "protection". Then at some point he told the Suitress he's going to have people "guarding" him. I just think we should avoid saying with certainty who assigned the roles and instead quote Bella/Suitress/Chris. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 13:32, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Good idea, maybe we shouldn't say that Bella was "assigned" per say. Rather, that she would "act" as those things. Psycho (talk) 13:35, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like Chris did assign the bodyguard role. From Bella chats#The Selected Few, Chris said, "You'll also play as a bodyguard and watch person, similar to Link's Navi, unless you feel able to do physical work in defense as well." Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 03:51, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Reaction during Incest Call

In the Incest Scandal section it currently says "she didn't discourage him from continuing having sex with his mother" and "Bella acted nonchalant throughout, and even supportive at times."

I think it should be noted that in the Incest Call she did make a subtle attempt to direct Chris away from Barb. She said:

"But wouldn't you want somebody who's younger? Right? To keep up more with your energy? Yeah."

Then starting talking up the Suitress and how he should try for a relationship with her. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 18:54, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Funny thing is, that's actually part of what people based the claim of her planning something on. Because she tried to direct him to the Suitress. Looking back, that could just as well mean a number of things. Though, as stated in the Gossip page, the Suitress never directly expressed an interest in being a sweetheart. She just stated she had a crush on him. Plus, Chris came to believe she'd find a long term sweetheart in college anyway. I think that's the primary reason he said no above all else. He's realized how much he's been cockblocked by that point, though apparently not enough to realize that one of her other sweethearts, Bella, was a troll. Psycho (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Though Suitress did say in Incest fallout chat leaks#Discussion of Incest after hearing the Call that "He's still in disbelief of his first real sweetheart" and encouraged Bella to "Please tell him to quit her for me" and Bella said she'll try. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 02:00, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the latter is worth considering. It does give insight about the Everfree sex, TBH. That she probably told Bella that she wanted to do this, and that Bella didn't convince her. I almost get vibes that she thinks she can save Chris by doing this, or some other naive sounding crap. She talks about being concerned of Chris's well-being in other texts, and tries to state she's not a troll in others. Psycho (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Jesus

It says Bella had a plan to make Chris believe he's Jesus. But in the source quote she says, "yeah but by getting others to tell him theyre jesus and they hate them". So she's saying others are Jesus, not Chris. While Chris did later believe he is Jesus that seems to have started after the jail saga began. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 08:51, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Bella's broken English is hard to make out at times. Who do you think "they" are? Maybe an OC or someone else of note? Psycho (talk) 12:35, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like she was potentially talking about Barb in that chat. Psycho (talk) 12:41, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion it sounds like she was acting like an edgelord. Because the whole thing sounds nonsensical. If she was being serious, "they" could be anything since she said "others" so it doesn't seem like she was going off of Louis's "sacrifice Barb" comment. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 17:14, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Narutoisgay77897

Is this confirmed to be Bella? Searching on KF, the earliest post in which a user mentioned that is here, but the user also hedged by saying, "This is almost certainly her". Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 06:47, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Maybe comment it out for a bit. We shouldn't include it unless we know for certain it's Bella. I can certainly see cases where people get attacked just because we assume they're Bella. Psycho (talk) 15:33, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Aliases

We should have proof these aliases are indeed Bella's. Some of the recent additions to the list need proof. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 04:22, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Claim Vs Joke

In this article and in some others, the comments Allen and Bella made about a suicide plan are labeled as a "claim". However Allen has called those a joke. There's also no proof they were serious about a suicide plan. In this case, calling it a claim seems like loaded language. I think the claim mentions should be revised to say joke, with the source given being Allen's claims on the matter. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 14:01, 3 May 2023 (EDT)

Louis and Allen

Personally, I think there should've been a Section for these two as well in this article, I mean even if their direct involvement isn't really that much, they still played a significant role in the whole trolling operation, Not to mention both Louis and Allen was mentioned several times in various other articles on this site and I personally don't think we should just let them scotch free here.

My suggestion? I think we should make a "associates" section, similar to the Idea Guys one before it got deleted --Goodhoward (talk) 01:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

What's there to say about Louis? Don't think he ever talked to Chris. Allen had his own page briefly but it was later folded into Post-incest leak drama since as far as interactions with Chris goes, Allen only briefly spoke in Chess Group 15. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 07:41, 18 January 2024 (EST)