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For discussion that doesn't fit into the other community pages - though do keep it related to the CWCki.

Standards for inclusion

This is to continue the discussion that had begun on the main page. As a way to separate tetrad members from trolls worthy of an article, I would propose the following metric in evaluating trolls: that Chris has actively produced content relating to them, such as incorporating them into the Sonichu comic. Conversations on social networks are not enough. Truly influential trolls, such as the Miscreants, Chris's various sweethearts through the years or more recently the Idea Guys or Sockness, have inspired Chris to go to great lengths and produce substantial content. Common enablers like Sarah and Steve may get some occasional short dialogue on Discord or Twitter, but nothing like the old IRC logs or Mumble chats. Articles on those who are not significant enough by this standard to warrant their own article should probably be folded into brief mentions in their appropriate category. ChanOfTartary (talk) 16:18, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

It is something worth looking into, although there is a small risk that if we overlook an enabler who started small then suddenly become big a few months or years later, then we might have trouble tracing back their footsteps. The internet can forget as much as to never forget, but at the same time, we are dealing with more and more people going into great lengths to leave their mark in the Sonichu lore. --Little Owl (talk) 16:45, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

We could Move the existing pages for enablers who don't make the cut into the CWCki namespace. That would also allow for keeping track without needing to write formally for the general CWCki audience. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 20:05, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Should we still move the articles to the CWCki:Enablers page or just leave the preservation to the article history? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 20:58, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

It is possibly better to leave them as article history. A simple search can find past references to an enabler from the Farms, but some enablers may well regard a CWCki article as some mark of honour or fame ensuring them a place in Christory. ChanOfTartary (talk) 21:16, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 17:32, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Fan videos

I propose deletion of all fan videos sections as they add nothing of value to the wiki. - Klop|polK (talk) 08:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Not sure about removing all fan video sections - maybe if they're high quality enough and had effort put into them, they can stay, like some of the videos on THAT IS MY HOUSE. Agreed with your call on removing the reversal videos, though. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 08:14, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I have to agree with Hurtful Truth Level, particularly since there are some pretty good fan videos like those VHS parodies by Mycalfelps. I wish they could finish reuploading them and also the "Greene County Conspiracy" trailer. --Little Owl (talk) 11:18, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I deleted all the reverse videos. Everything else has been left untouched - Klop|polK (talk) 11:20, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Chris and

I have proposed some changes to the Chris and articles, since they are major, more discussion is required. Here are the changes. You can discuss on the CWCki Discord too. - klop (talk) 15:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Chris and cosplaying could also just be renamed to Cosplaying, since it's not a significant aspect of Chris. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 20:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree - klop (talk) 02:05, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Jerkops can now register new accounts

I asked Canine to set it up so that anyone in the Jerkops (moderator) user group can register new accounts. This should make it so we won't need to resort to fully opening registration and letting the spambots in. There should be a Create Account link in Special Pages that Jerkops can access - https://sonichu.com/cwcki/Special:CreateAccount.

Anyone wanting an account can PM a Jerkop on Kiwi Farms or Discord. They'd only need to provide an email address and user name. There's an option to automatically generate a password for them.

I could make a post about this in the Updating the CWCki thread on Kiwi Farms. Any jerkop who's open to being contacted about this, post your KF user name here and I'll tag you in the post. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 11:49, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Kolp1607 on the farms klop (talk) 11:57, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

The future of "corner icons"

Within the last few days, we have seen more "corner icons" being added to a number of articles, such as Rosechu and Sonichu (character), in addition to existing ones at Chris and anger and Jacob Sockness. I wish to gather opinions on the future of this feature, because I am not seeing any purpose of such icons on this wiki, other than being random pictures in contravention on our policy of not copying Encyclopaedia Dramatica. --Little Owl (talk) 17:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I think it’s getting way out of hand. I think very few article should have one. It just ruins the aesthetic if we just have one everywhere.PsychoNerd054 (talk) 18:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

In my opinion, I would prefer phasing them out completely: it just distracts the reader from the main content. I am sure that there are plenty of reasonable alternatives to corner icons, such as expanding said articles or adding more inline images. --Little Owl (talk) 21:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree, none of them add anything and distract users from the actual article. Complete removal is the best option. - klop (talk) 03:34, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Gatekeepers

There is a group of individuals who keep malicious individuals away from Chris. They enable his fantasies to keep him intrested but don't harm him in any other way. Should this be a new category to classify people or be a subsection in the enablers article. - klop (talk) 08:13, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Just put them in the Enablers article. The main quality of an enabler is that they enable Chris’ bad habits, it doesn’t matter if it’s for good or bad intentions. PsychoNerd054 (talk) 13:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Did it, though as time passes we may need a full article for them. Also now that they have publically revealed themselves, should we call this the "Gatekeeping saga". They've been guiding Chris since atleast October 2019. - klop (talk) 01:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you proposing that they would be a new member of the Unholy Tetrad? (By which point they’d be the “Unholy Quintet”) PsychoNerd054 (talk) 05:35, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

No, they very clearly come under Enablers as you pointed out. I'm proposing we call this time period the Gatekeeping saga since they have an incredibly deep root in Chris's life. - klop (talk) 05:40, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Is it saga material? Usually sagas are for describing major happenings revolving around Chris. Gatekeeper stuff so far seems to be more about releasing material about the Sockness and Dimensional Merge sagas. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 08:56, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

New Template: To Do

Taking a page from The Cutting Room Floor, I think we should have a template that list things that should be added onto articles, that should work better than just having incomplete templates on several pages without an explanation. Does this sound like a good idea? PsychoNerd054 (talk) 19:06, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

It sounds like a useful idea. I suppose if a user has any suggestions but are too lazy to do the work themselves, they could always give some brief pointers on what could be done, so someone else can chip in later. Rossticus (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

"xth year of organised trolling"

Little Owl mentioned on Talk:2021 that use of the phrase "x year of organised trolling" is kind of outdated now, especially since we tend to discourage people from getting involved with Chris directly. Should articles about years still say "organised trolling", or should they just say "x year since Chris' discovery"? FokkerTISM (talk) 09:07, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

I would say "x years since the discovery of Chris and the Sonichu franchise", because Sonichu is a very important part of the CWCiverse. Without the cringe-fest that is Sonichu, Chris would be just another fan of Pokémon and Sonic. --Little Owl (talk) 19:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Agree on "discovery", I feel that while trolls and Sonichu are key aspects of the lore, for brevity's sake just "Chris's discovery" is sufficient. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I feel that there should be a point where organized trolling stopped. 2010 or 2011 fit that pretty well. I think that every article from 2007 to 2010/2011 should keep the "x year of organized trolling," but the years after that can be changed. Superspongebobbros (talk) 01:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I just updated all the articles from 2011 to 2021 to say "x years since Chris's discovery" rather than "xth year of organized trolling."Superspongebobbros (talk) 20:23, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Adding a Manipulation Disclosure to all Chris videos?

Should we edit the Template:Infobox/video to insert a message pointing out that most videos were the result of troll manipulation? Something along the lines of:

Manipulation Disclosure: The views Chris expresses may or may not be his own. Many of Chris's videos were orchestrated behind the scenes by trolls putting ideas in his head or goading him to act out; the majority of these interactions was never released to the public.

Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 00:14, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Adding it to *all* videos seems like overdoing it. I'm pretty sure most people who spend an hour on the CWCki without any context at all will realize that half of Chris's life has been fabricated by trolls. Since videos Chris makes of his own volition seem to be the outliers, maybe an infobox disclaimer for videos Chris wasn't manipulated into making would be more helpful. With that being said, contextual textboxes should only be included if they're necessary, and I don't think any are warranted for this sort of thing.

Abaddon (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Which videos are of his own volition can be hard to determine, though. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 01:08, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

For that reason alone, adding in an infobox for videos possibly-maybe-not-manipulated-out-of-Chris-by-trolls would be an addition which could be untrue for certain videos. Abaddon (talk) 01:22, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Kind of late, but I like the idea. Holdek (talk) 04:15, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Noticed that in the List of videos, it shows that there were relatively few videos prior to Chris beginning interactions with trolls in late 2007. So maybe a way to address the concern of applying to all videos would be to make a second video template for the videos prior to troll influences. So the pre-trolls FUTURE MESSAGE could have a new template (which resembles the current one), and the trolls-era Twin Falling Towers could use the original video template but modified with the manipulation disclosure. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 05:33, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Contingency

So as you may know Kiwifarms may be in some hot water. If they go the way of 8Chan in August 2019 what's the plan to keep the Cwcki from going down forever, because IIRC this is hosted by a service set up by Null that would go down if KF is deplatoformed. The KF drama is affecting the Cwcki right now in fact, I've been getting intermittent time out errors as of late. Homsar (talk) 03:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Wait a minute, what's going on with Kiwi Farms? I don't really pay attention to it, but I'm gonna assume that this has something to do with Null saying that he would shut down the site if Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act wasn't renewed. Superspongebobbros (talk) 17:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

It's under a DDOS attack. Marvin/User:Canine would be the one to ask about contingencies, he's the owner. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 18:16, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Doxxing

In the light of the Suitress policy, I've been thinking about how this site treats people's personal info in general. While people like Bella and Sean Walker definitely deserve to be exposed for who they really are, and people like Michael Snyder and Megan Schroeder have been doxxed by Chris himself beyond the point of no return, I can't think of any reason to display the real names of people like Copitz and Doopie, especially in light of Chris becoming a sex criminal.

Doopie never wanted to get involved with Chris, while Copitz's worst crime was just hanging out with a known internet celebrity years ago. Now that Chris's crimes are revealed to the mainstream, this kind of thing can have a real impact on people's lives. I propose we systematically remove this kind of blanket doxxing from articles unless there's a clear reason for it. --4CentUser (talk) 15:51, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I think we should hammer out what a clear reason would be. I don't think it should be based on whether people deserve it, that can get messy. Maybe go by how much of the person's name Chris used. Like he's used first and last names referring to Michael and Megan. Whereas with Doopie and Copitz, he's used first names. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 18:30, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I like this idea, and I also think we should consider these things in this era where more and more people are being aware of Chris. We should also consider the events that surrounded their dox. In the case of Suitress, Chris only used her first name on one occasion, and that was in the one where he promised not to rage at Everfree. Every other instance he used the pseudonym she created. He had never used her full name. People only learned of her full name by Bella leaking it everywhere, and even then it's more or less forgotten, and other websites are making efforts to wipe it as well. Therefore, I think it's much easier to handle her being anonymous on the site. More involved people like Megan, Adam Stackhouse, Michael Snyder, and others can't get this treatment since they've all been established since the beginning, and because they keep getting namedropped. PsychoNerd (talk) 18:40, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Regarding pages like Doopie with an infobox, maybe under Name it could just have the person's name up to how much of it Chris used. So for Doopie the Name could read "Danielle" and use Doopie E-mails as a reference. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 19:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

How should other identifying info, like birthdates, be handled? Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 05:39, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

As I said, unless the birthdays are somehow crucial to understanding Christory, it isn't necessary. I wouldn't say it's the worst offense, though. PsychoNerd (talk) 14:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

At the moment, I think birthdays for relatives and people closely related to Chris are fair game. PsychoNerd (talk) 14:27, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Well, this is certainly a subject I have opinions on. First of all, very little if anything that's been done on this site I think really constitutes "doxing" to any high degree. At worst it's repeating real names that have been exposed elsewhere, I don't think anyone's been doxed first here, at least anytime in recent memory. But if anything rises to the occasion of a more severe "doxing", it's the birthdays. Birthday, location, and name, now we're getting to the territory of "doxing". Just listing names, not so much.

To me, anyone and everyone who willfully interacts with Chris and particularly who gets involved with any sort of elaborate troll/countertroll operations is fair game to be documented. This includes the "Suitress", random weens that show up at the house, random people who fucked with Chris on Twitter, people who make stupid videos about Chris on YouTube, every member of the Watchmen, Knights, and any similar group, and so on, not to exclude contributors to this Wiki (or to the Kiwi Farms) and particularly not to exclude their friends. Their is a blindingly obviously double standard at play here particularly in the hands of User:HurtfulTruthLevel, something which I've documented extensively (and not without a bit of pushback) [1].

Most egregious is the consistent targeting of Meghan Ringo, for reasons that I don't quite understand. I'm not her friend or guardian and if there is solid reason to target her I'm totally on board, and I'm not saying that she shouldn't be doxed/documented, because she should (more than meeting the criteria I laid out above), just that it is, again, blindingly obvious that she was at some point deemed fair game while there is pushback on documenting Anaxis, for instance, or now Kyle, or even someone like Sean. To believe that there is the remotest amount of objectivity here strains all credulity if you are aware that these are people with whom HTL (who was, for those keeping score at home, against the doxing of Wise and Boyd, of all people) and others here have mixed socially.

I don't really understand the aversion to doxing people here, these are people who wilfully interacted with Chris, i.e. were cruisin' for a bruisin' to begin with. People's identities being "relevant to Chris" is a criteria worth considering, after all, it's not the weenipedia. Whether Chris used their name and what name he used seems like so much autistic nitpicking. Picking and chosing who gets their name shared is inconsistent and open to some egregious abuses. To my mind if people are notable enough to be included they are notable enough to be named. (I won't get into the Suitress and Wallflower situations other than to say I don't agree, but the principle that these two got in more or less over their heads and deserve a pass is one that's grounded in basic decency, I think. Same with Doopie. I can't fathom why Coptiz's name was redacted, though, other than personal connections yet again.)

But more realistically, there are a few different categories: (a) the core dramatis personae, already doxed to high heaven, this would include Chandler family members; Meghan Schroeder, etc. (b) important Internet personalities like Meghan K. Ringo, the rest of the Watchmen, etc.; (c) major players in major scandals like Sean Walker, Isabella Loretta Janke, Devon John Infinito, Wise and Boyd, etc.; (d) public figures like (also) Devon John Infinito, Ethan Oliver Ralph, etc.; (e) random weens from the Internet who get doxed as sport like Rosa Ray Ramsey; (f) weens who take it to the next level like Ellen Underwod Willis or Dylon James Winfield. There might be one or more categories that could be added and I'm only focusing on recent history here but I feel like the gradations here are pretty objective and less liable to being abused, fewer double standards of which there are many at present.

A concrete policy is needed not only to produce better and more consistent quality content but to not just plain exude a scandalous lack of objectivity and distinct odor of backroom dealings.

Just how I feel about it. SpookyBones (talk) 15:17, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

P.S. There is only one "x" in "doxing". SpookyBones (talk) 15:18, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Potential New Direction for the Wiki. "Life Advice", "Parental Guides", "How to be Normie and Not Chris", "Psychoanalysis Theories by Accredited Psychiatrists, Psychotherapists, and Therapists"

Now with Chris in prison and his life ruined forever permanently confirmed, this wiki will definitely be going through a dry spell aside from minor updates. (i.e. predictably, more letters, Chris getting abused in the shower room, being released as a homeless person at age 50, shock surprising us once again by attempting to molest a child only to get beat up by said child, than, shock surprising us again by trying to molest a horse, then getting clopped in the nads by said horse, and then dying, but not before defecating on his own face before he dies. His final words being "MMMMM! I love the taste of my own POOP!") ...So, to keep users active, I propose a plethora of new things. One of them being the creation of articles designed to keep people from falling into the same irrecoverable pit that Chris did. Chris was not the first to do most of the embarrassing things he did. There have been other lolcows on the net, and they all fall into similar pits if not as hard as Chris. Take David Gonterman for instance, or Robert Pelloni from Bob's Game infamy, ChaseTheHedgehog or YandereDEV or A-log. They all share similarities and a dash of the highly potent flaws that Chris possessed. Then you have to take into account that there are like 10000 or more people out there like them who are undiscovered. I am of theory that our society is dysfuctional, and made so because of a lack of care by wealthy individuals and policymakers and businessemn. And that if things aren't improved, there are going to be less and less prodigies, inventors, leaders, and cool people, and more and more lolcows and general losers like Chris.

Take for instance, this. A sign of the times: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/202007/why-millennials-love-anime-and-hentai-pornography

https://www.bustle.com/articles/99659-millennials-are-masturbating-to-my-little-pony-porn-says-new-survey-and-rainbow-dash-is-the

Now I've been inspired by this ED article, which is my favorite:

https://encyclopediadramatica.online/The_Comprehensive_Guide_To_Life

It contains so much useful info that a lot of people these days don't regard. They live their lives wrong, and then what happens? They get weirdo internet fetishes and become basement dwellers. They also get desperate and either become like that doll collector from Paranoia Agent or they hook up with volatile partners and suffer with it indefinitely or divorce. The children suffer the most, because they are confused and there is no light for them and they lack skills to become competent adults because Corps see all human beings as cattle to be milked for money, and money doesn't really have real value anyway outside perception when you think about it.

I think this wiki should rocket itself forward and become a learning tool. I worry so much about today's parents. I see them letting their kids use the internet and talk with fandoms that will lead to getting fetishes and becoming weird. I see Parent letting their kids eat McDonalds because they financially struggle, and the kids get fat, and then they get stupid because they are fat. Kids are also unable to go out side and exercise. They lack discipline and they need to know martial arts and yoga stances much like kids in Asian countries do and make a routine out of it every morning. Kids need to become worldly, and learn about all cultures and countries and people and ingrain good disciplines and clean their houses and manage their finances.

I think all parents need to know about Chris Chan, and have thoughts of him in the back of their head so that they avoid everything that Bob and Barb did whenever doing a parental decision so that their kid is happy and successful and moral and just plain good.

This wiki needs to recruit actual psychiatrists, therapists, and psychoanalysts, and other mental socio scientists to analyze our findings and create road maps to life fulfillment. --TippyToesTommyTalarico 21:22, 21 October 2021

That sounds like an interesting idea, but it goes far beyond the scope of this website. If you still wanted to do something like that here, you could make a personal user essay and open it up for other people to edit, but I don't think it would warrant actual article space. --4CentUser (talk) 01:22, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Conflicts of interest

Editors who have documented connections to the topics of articles should not be permitted to directly edit those articles. For more detail, see my comments on Talk:The Journey to the Merge#Deceptive attribution. --4CentUser (talk) 00:34, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Barbara station

Just a quick heads up that there is now a train station called Barbara… in Paris. I know it is named after a French singer, but I could not avoid noticing the name. Sorry for being busy: some people do have real lives. --Little Owl (talk) 10:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Icons modernisation

I am putting out a request for someone to do a full review and refresh of the icons for the new {{Saga}} ^(Usage) template. This is because a number of them (such as that for Childhood and the CWCipedia) are provisional. My proposed specifications are as follows:

• The icons should use the PNG file format.
• The icons should have a transparent background.
• The icons should be 32×32 pixels.
• The icons for meta sagas should have a circular frame, to distinguish them from standard saga icons.
• The icons should have a file name format of Saga icon [Saga Name].png.

I decided to suggest increasing the icon size from 20×20 pixels to 32×32 pixels, because the latter was the default size for Windows icons, until the XP era (source). Changing to 32×32 pixels will also allow more detail, while not affecting the retro factor.

Any questions, please reply below. --Little Owl (talk) 17:47, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Non-YouTube videos

I'd like to add some videos to the CWCki, however, the content would make it difficult to host it on YouTube. (etc. NSFW content) Some videos on the CWCki are already on the Internet Archive, but I believed Marvin talked about possibly using PeerTube in the KF CWCki thread. Where should I upload these videos? --Gray Deign (talk) 21:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Due to the uncertainty with the Kiwi Farms (Zayo just threw them out), I would recommend to consider establishing our very own PeerTube instance. --Little Owl (talk) 17:51, 24 October 2022 (EDT)

Endangered/extinct? links/websites

I've been working on replacing/finding archives for dead links in articles for the past few days. I think we should have a discussion of websites that are often used as references and can be considered as endangered. These websites should have a high priority in obtaining archives to prevent content from being lost. I'll start with a couple examples, feel free to add others and contribute to the discussion.

CWCipedia: / http://archive.sonichu.com/cwcipedia/index.php?title=Main_Page Is this something staff plan to fix in the future, or should we replace those links with archives from archive.org /etc?

Chris's Facebook page: / https://www.facebook.com/CwcvilleGuardian I've been getting a "This content isn't available right now" message when trying to view posts. Not sure if anyone else is able to view the page or if the account has been deleted, privated, or something else.

Kiwi Farms/CWCki Forums / https://kiwifarms.net/: Site is currently down right now after being pulled by ISPs, but is expected to come back up soon. Gray Deign (talk) 18:14, 26 October 2022 (EDT)

Marvin mentioned a server for CWCipedia stuff, he might be working on it still.

Regarding Kiwi Farms, how should we approach archiving? Wayback removed its archive of KF. There's still Archive.today. Maybe we could take screenshots of specific posts and upload to CWCki. We could also evaluate which KF references are necessary - I believe a chunk of those links are things like screenshots of Chris's tweets which we could replace with the CWCki's social media pages. Hurtful Truth Level (talk) 09:33, 27 October 2022 (EDT)

I believe archive.today would be the best option to archive links from Kiwi Farms when the site comes back up. There are some pages that still use the cwckiforums.com domain as a reference such as July 2013 Facebook Posts; those should be replaced with the kiwifarms.net urls + archives when Kiwi Farms comes back up (unless the CWCki Forums link already has already been archived, then we should just replace the non-archived link). Other pages that use cwckiforums.com urls as a reference can be found here

I agree that Kiwi Farms links that are just screenshots of Chris's Tweets could be replaced with the CWCki's social media pages. Screenshots should be used for posts that are relevant to the CWCki, such as LegendaryChristorian's posts to KF.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/good-day-people.34903/ / https://archive.ph/aVoza

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/i-curse-each-and-every-one-of-you-all.34943/ archive: https://archive.ph/UCPRI Gray Deign (talk) 10:53, 27 October 2022 (EDT)

Kiwi Farms is now back up on TOR, but not yet for the clearnet, which is expected to be up for tomorrow. Now is a good time to gather screenshots and hopefully archives. Gray Deign (talk) 13:24, 30 October 2022 (EDT)

Kiwi Farms is now back up on the clearnet! Gray Deign (talk) 21:08, 31 October 2022 (EDT)