Difference between revisions of "Debt"

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{{quote|How the hell CWC is going to pay all that?|Twitter user TaoOfMao1, on viewing the result for Chris's third debt lawsuit.}}
{{quote|How the hell CWC is going to pay all that?|Twitter user TaoOfMao1, on viewing the result for Chris's third debt lawsuit.}}


{{quote|A bit at a time. Do Not Judge Me, [[Asperchu|Mao]]. It is wrong to judge others by outdated information and financial shit.|Chris's response.<ref>https://twitter.com/CWCSonichu/status/1075548549142720512</ref> He has been sued for nonpayment many times since.}}
{{quote|A bit at a time. Do Not Judge Me, [[Asperchu|Mao]]. It is wrong to judge others by outdated information and financial shit.|Chris's response.<ref>[[December 2018 social media posts#Deep in debt]]</ref> He has been sued for nonpayment many times since.}}


[[File:Barb discover bank result.png|thumb|200px|The first of many debt lawsuits against the Chandlers.]]
[[File:Barb discover bank result.png|thumb|200px|The first of many debt lawsuits against the Chandlers.]]


'''Debt''' is anything owed by one party to another, such as money owed to a creditor. Due to their mutual [[Chris and work|laziness]] and [[Tour of Chris's House|propensities towards hoarding]], [[Barbara]] and [[Chris]] are both heavily in debt. Both have been taken to court for their failure to pay debts on multiple occasions: Barb three and Chris ten times (including three garnishment hearings against Chris), as of [[October 2022]]. According to court records, Barbara owes at least $20,000, while Chris owes over $10,000, to say nothing of the $115,000 second mortgage on [[14 Branchland Court]] that consumes the lion's share of Chris's [[monthly tugboat]].
'''Debt''' is anything owed by one party to another, such as money owed to a creditor. Due to their mutual [[Chris and work|laziness]] and [[Tour of Chris's House|propensities towards hoarding]], [[Barbara]] and [[Chris]] are both heavily in debt. Both have been taken to court for their failure to pay debts on multiple occasions: Barb three and Chris eleven times (including four garnishment hearings against Chris), as of [[April 2023]]. According to court records, Barbara owes over $20,000, while Chris owes over $10,000, to say nothing of the $115,000 second mortgage on [[14 Branchland Court]].


==Debts==
==Debts==
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| 6%
| 6%
| $55
| $55
| rowspan="2" | Delayed from 18 March 2020 due to COVID-19 precautions. Heard on 2 September 2020 after two postponements.<ref name=sept2020>[[Other Watchmen chats (September 2020)#Debt hearing, toys, Merge]]</ref>
| rowspan="2" | Delayed from 18 March 2020 due to COVID-19 precautions. Heard on 2 September 2020 after two postponements.<ref name=sept2020>[[Other chats leaked by Naught (September 2020)#Debt hearing, toys, Merge]]</ref>
|-
|-
| 30 January 2020
| 30 January 2020
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|
|
|
|
| Hearing scheduled for 5 October 2022.
| Hearing scheduled for 5 [[October 2022]] (indefinitely postponed).
|-
| 10 March 2023
| 26 April 2023
| Midland Funding
| Chris
| Garnishment
|
|
|
| Hearing scheduled for 26 [[April 2023]]. Result: Dismissed No Funds
|- class="sortbottom"
|- class="sortbottom"
! style="text-align:left" colspan="3" rowspan="3" | Summary
! style="text-align:left" colspan="3" rowspan="3" | Summary
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|-
|-
! style="text-align:left"  | Chris
! style="text-align:left"  | Chris
! style="text-align:left"  | 9 cases
! style="text-align:left"  | 11 cases
! style="text-align:right" | $11,606.15
! style="text-align:right" | $11,606.15
! style="text-align:right" | $481.15
! style="text-align:right" | $481.15
|-
|-
! style="text-align:left"  | Total
! style="text-align:left"  | Total
! style="text-align:left"  | {{color|red|12 cases}}
! style="text-align:left"  | {{color|red|14 cases}}
! style="text-align:right" | $32,912.89
! style="text-align:right" | $32,912.89
! style="text-align:right" | $481.15
! style="text-align:right" | $481.15
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File:Court Record - 2021 LVNV Funding LLC, Warrant in Debt (Barbara, GV21000117-00).png|LVNV Funding LLC vs Barbara, Warrant in Debt, March 2021
File:Court Record - 2021 LVNV Funding LLC, Warrant in Debt (Barbara, GV21000117-00).png|LVNV Funding LLC vs Barbara, Warrant in Debt, March 2021
File:Court Record - 2022 Portfolio Recovery Associates, Garnishment (Chris, GV20000043-01).png|Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Garnishment, August 2022
File:Court Record - 2022 Portfolio Recovery Associates, Garnishment (Chris, GV20000043-01).png|Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Garnishment, August 2022
File:Court Record - 2023 Midland Funding, Garnishment (Chris, GV18000451-02).png|Midland Funding vs Chris, Garnishment, March 2023
</gallery></center>
</gallery></center>


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Bob probably salvaged Chris's credit rating when he paid off all his prior card debt at once, but he angrily claimed Chris ruined it with the Best Buy debt (certainly true), and, in disturbingly Chris-like fashion, seemed to use this damning information to try to make Chris's latest brush with the [[Chris and the law|law]] seem "petty" in comparison.{{cite}}
Bob probably salvaged Chris's credit rating when he paid off all his prior card debt at once, but he angrily claimed Chris ruined it with the Best Buy debt (certainly true), and, in disturbingly Chris-like fashion, seemed to use this damning information to try to make Chris's latest brush with the [[Chris and the law|law]] seem "petty" in comparison.{{cite}}


After Bob's death, Chris took back control of his credit cards. As he learned nothing due to Bob's enabling, Chris quickly accrued more debt. Unverified information on Chris's credit card debt was leaked on the CWCki Forums on 4 June 2014. It was revealed that Chris had at least five active credit cards, with at least $7,600 in combined credit limit. Of the five known active cards, at least four were revealed to be maxed out, with at least $7400 in unpaid debt between the five cards. It was estimated that the minimum payment on Chris's known debt was at least $220 a month, and it was revealed that the only reason that Chris had been able to obtain the credit that he had was that, historically, he had almost always at least paid the minimum payment each month, although it was implied that he rarely if ever paid more than the minimum.<ref>[http://cwckiforums.com/threads/chris-and-his-finances-an-in-depth-review-of-his-debt.3809/ CWCki Forums: "Chris and his finances: An in-depth review of his debt"] ([https://archive.today/K6R2c archived version])</ref>
After Bob's death, Chris took back control of his credit cards. As he learned nothing due to Bob's enabling, Chris quickly accrued more debt. Unverified information on Chris's credit card debt was leaked on the CWCki Forums on 4 June 2014. It was revealed that Chris had at least five active credit cards, with at least $7,600 in combined credit limit. Of the five known active cards, at least four were revealed to be maxed out, with at least $7400 in unpaid debt between the five cards. It was estimated that the minimum payment on Chris's known debt was at least $220 a month, and it was revealed that the only reason that Chris had been able to obtain the credit that he had was that, historically, he had almost always at least paid the minimum payment each month, although it was implied that he rarely if ever paid more than the minimum.<ref>[[CWCki Forums posts (other users)#Chris and his finances: An in-depth review of his debt]]</ref>


In [[June 2016]], Chris's got a credit limit raise from one of his credit cards. Chris immediately blew his "bonus" on [[Transformers]] only to later beg for money over [[Facebook]] while blaming his [[Barb|mother]] for "impulsively" spending more on their overdue bills than the minimum amount due.
In [[June 2016]], Chris's got a credit limit raise from one of his credit cards. Chris immediately blew his "bonus" on [[Transformers]] only to later beg for money over [[Facebook]] while blaming his [[Barb|mother]] for "impulsively" spending more on their overdue bills than the minimum amount due.
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</gallery></center>
</gallery></center>


Nearing the end of the 2010s, Chris began to ignore his minimum debt payments, causing multiple collection agencies to file suit against him. [[Other enablers#Aly Hirschberg|Aly Hirschberg]], a financial [[enabler]], tried to help by sending Chris free money,<ref>https://kiwifarms.net/threads/aly-hirschberg-alan-christopher.60596/page-14#post-5858020</ref> but Chris simply spent the money on entertainment such as printing up a line of personal [[TSSSF]] cards instead.
Nearing the end of the 2010s, Chris began to ignore his minimum debt payments, causing multiple collection agencies to file suit against him. [[Other enablers#Aly Hirschberg|Aly Hirschberg]], a financial [[enabler]], tried to help by sending Chris free money,<ref>[[Aly Hirschberg DMs]]</ref> but Chris simply spent the money on entertainment such as printing up a line of personal [[TSSSF]] cards instead.


===Payday loan===
===Payday loan===
In early 2016, [[CatKnight Interview|Arthur Spatchcock]] discovered that Chris had taken out a payday loan for $3,000.<ref>https://kiwifarms.net/threads/chris-spent-over-425-on-ebay-last-month.19451/page-13#post-1392146</ref>
In early 2016, [[CatKnight Interview|Arthur Spatchcock]] discovered that Chris had taken out a payday loan for $3,000.<ref>[[Kiwi Farms posts (MasterDisaster)#Payday Loan]]</ref>


{{quotebox|Chris "borrowed" three thousand dollars. What he did with it is hazy, sure, but how do you think he bought all those lego sets for Lego Dimensions? }}
{{quotebox|Chris "borrowed" three thousand dollars. What he did with it is hazy, sure, but how do you think he bought all those lego sets for Lego Dimensions? }}
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{{see also|Financhu Crisis#Future|l1=Financhu Crisis, Future section}}
{{see also|Financhu Crisis#Future|l1=Financhu Crisis, Future section}}


At present, Chris is basically immune to the consequences of his own debts. The [[monthly tugboat]] technically cannot be garnished, money from financial [[enablers]] is squirreled away in Paypal or spent too quickly for the court to note, and his debts are unsecured as he does not have collateral in his name ([[14 Branchland Court]] is in the name of his parents).
At present, Chris is basically immune to the consequences of his own debts. The [[monthly tugboat]] technically cannot be garnished, money from financial [[enablers]] is squirreled away in Paypal or spent too quickly for the court to note, and his debts are unsecured as he does not have collateral in his name (the [[Big Island, VA]] house is in the name of [[Caden]]).
 
However, the dominoes will begin to fall once Barbara passes away. Without her own tugboat to defray living costs and mortgage payments, it is unlikely Chris will afford the bills to remain at home and must move to an apartment. The damage to Chris's credit rating and background check from so many debt judgements (as well as wannabe [[weens]]) make it highly unlikely prospective employers and landlords will take a chance on him.
 
Concerned followers have urged Chris to sign up for Section 8 housing soon since the waiting list may be long, as debt is irrelevant regarding Section 8 applications, though Chris has not bothered to do so, instead pretending that the [[Dimensional Merge]] will bail him out.
 
=== What about bankruptcy? ===
 
In the United States, creditors can force Barb or Chris into bankruptcy by filing an involuntary petition against either or both of them.<ref>https://www.vsb.org/site/publications/the-bankruptcy-process</ref> If the creditors manage to force the Chandlers into bankruptcy, Seterus (the collection agency for the [[14 Branchland Court]] mortgage) may think twice about letting the Chandlers stay (same for any other bankrupt household), increasing the risk of homelessness becoming a reality. The Chandlers would also lose all but the most basic possessions, since the liquidators will try to get as much money as possible, even if it means accepting an offer by a local recycling firm for his hoard of old toys and video games.<ref>Guardsman42 (21 June 2019). [https://kiwifarms.net/threads/chandlers-sued-for-debt-megathread.55045/page-23#post-4880132 Re: Chandlers sued for debt megathread]. ''Kiwi Farms''. Retrieved 19 December 2019.</ref>
 
However, an involuntary petition is not easy: {{plain link|https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/303|11 US Code § 303}} requires Midland Funding, Portfolio Recovery Associates and Second Round Sub to show that Chris has at least $10,000 in debt, and also ignore all outstanding debts like a {{w|freemen on the land}} – both of which came into question on 2 September 2020.<ref>[[Other Watchmen chats (September 2020)]]: Chris stated that “monthly payments on that [debt] continued and have been made in keeping up with it”, so it is unclear if the current outstanding debt is more than $10,000.</ref> Furthermore, if the debt collectors proceed with the involuntary petition, and the court rules that petition was in "bad faith", they may end up [[Enablers|realising]] Chris's imaginary wealth in Dimension [[C-197]].<ref>https://www.southerncaliforniabankruptcylawblog.com/2012/01/13/involuntary-bankruptcy-what-is-it-and-why-would-anyone-file-one/</ref> For those reasons, the creditors will likely wait for Seterus to foreclose 14 Branchland Court after two missed payments following the death of [[Barb]] — a much greater threat to Chris's future than an involuntary bankruptcy.


==See also==
==See also==
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==References==
==References==
<references/>
<references/>
 
{{Articleofthenow}}
{{Money}}
{{Money}}


[[Category:Financhu Crisis]]
[[Category:Things bought with taxpayer money]]
[[Category:Things bought with taxpayer money]]

Latest revision as of 12:41, 27 September 2024

“ How the hell CWC is going to pay all that? ”
Twitter user TaoOfMao1, on viewing the result for Chris's third debt lawsuit.
“ A bit at a time. Do Not Judge Me, Mao. It is wrong to judge others by outdated information and financial shit. ”
Chris's response.[1] He has been sued for nonpayment many times since.
The first of many debt lawsuits against the Chandlers.

Debt is anything owed by one party to another, such as money owed to a creditor. Due to their mutual laziness and propensities towards hoarding, Barbara and Chris are both heavily in debt. Both have been taken to court for their failure to pay debts on multiple occasions: Barb three and Chris eleven times (including four garnishment hearings against Chris), as of April 2023. According to court records, Barbara owes over $20,000, while Chris owes over $10,000, to say nothing of the $115,000 second mortgage on 14 Branchland Court.

Debts

This table summarizes various debts between Chris and Barb. Keep in mind that these are only amounts found by Christorians via Chris's online posts and Virginia District Court public records. The actual amount outstanding may be lower, because Chris reported on 2 September 2020 that they were making repayments on some of the debt.[2]

On 30 November 2016, Chris started a Patreon with a goal of $250,000; he estimated $200,000 to pay off the mortgage and other debts, plus an extra $50,000 for himself, just because.

Date debt incurred Debtor Item Amount ($) Notes
Barbara Mortgage payments to Seterus Inc $115,000.00 Mortgaged 14 Branchland Court for collateral to pay credit card debt. $900 per month, using money from Chris's tugboat[3]
24 September 2014 Chris Loan for Son-Chu, creditor is Chrysler Capitol.[4] $9,000.00
16 March 2016 - 14 September 2016 Barbara Court judgements for debt (see next section for details) $21,306.74
24 August 2017 - present Chris Court judgements for debt (see next section for details) $11,606.15
1 March 2016 Chris PS4 purchase (via Fingerhut.com) $540.00
16 April 2016 Chris Payday loan (not counting the extremely high interest rates) $3,000.00
Total $160,452.89

Court cases

Filed date Judgement date Creditor Debtor Type Amount Interest Court fees Notes
19 February 2016 16 March 2016 Discover Bank Barbara Warrant in debt $4,706.93 n/a $56
4 August 2016 14 September 2016 Capital One Barbara Warrant in debt $15,906.99 n/a $56
17 July 2017 24 August 2017 Mariner Finance Chris Warrant in debt Case dismissed
24 September 2018 16 January 2019 Second Round Sub Chris Warrant in debt $2,467.63 6% $55 Failed to maintain payments: creditor filed for garnishment
23 October 2018 19 December 2018 Midland Funding Chris Warrant in debt $2,777.90 6% $55 Failed to maintain payments: creditor filed for garnishment
2 April 2019 19 June 2019 Portfolio Recovery Associates Chris Warrant in debt $1,079.08 n/a $55 Eyewitness account of the hearing.
6 May 2019 19 June 2019 Portfolio Recovery Associates Chris Warrant in debt $1,602.62 n/a $55
24 May 2019 3 July 2019 Midland Funding Chris Garnishment Closed early. Result: Dismissed No Funds
11 November 2019 15 January 2020 Second Round Sub Chris Garnishment Closed early. Result: Other
30 January 2020 2 September 2020 Jefferson Capital Systems Chris Warrant in debt $2,773.56 6% $55 Delayed from 18 March 2020 due to COVID-19 precautions. Heard on 2 September 2020 after two postponements.[2]
30 January 2020 2 September 2020 Portfolio Recovery Associates Chris Warrant in debt $905.36 n/a $55
30 March 2021 14 July 2021 LVNV Funding LLC Barbara Warrant in debt $692.82 6% $61 Hearing scheduled for 19 May 2021, continued to 14 July 2021.
19 August 2022 Portfolio Recovery Associates Chris Garnishment Hearing scheduled for 5 October 2022 (indefinitely postponed).
10 March 2023 26 April 2023 Midland Funding Chris Garnishment Hearing scheduled for 26 April 2023. Result: Dismissed No Funds
Summary Barbara 3 cases $21,306.74 n/a
Chris 11 cases $11,606.15 $481.15
Total 14 cases $32,912.89 $481.15

Gallery

  • Discover bank vs Barbara, Warrant in Debt, February 2016

  • Capital One bank vs Barbara, Warrant in Debt, August 2016

  • Mariner Finance vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, July 2017

  • Second Round Sub vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, September 2018

  • Midland Funding vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, October 2018

  • Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, April 2019

  • Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, May 2019

  • Midland Funding vs Chris, Garnishment, May 2019

  • Second Round Sub vs Chris, Garnishment, November 2019

  • Jefferson Capital Systems vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, January 2020

  • Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Warrant in Debt, January 2020

  • LVNV Funding LLC vs Barbara, Warrant in Debt, March 2021

  • Portfolio Recovery Associates vs Chris, Garnishment, August 2022

  • Midland Funding vs Chris, Garnishment, March 2023

Causes of debt

Credit cards

That Chris's parents permitted him to acquire several credit cards is very surprising, but the foolishness with which he uses them wouldn't surprise anybody at all. As of February 2009, Chris had managed to rack up $2,000 worth of debt (at the time of Mumble 4, $1,000 of that sum came from the PSN store, but his bill for PSN downloads increased by the day) and had even stolen his parents' credit cards to use when his own were maxed out.[citation needed] According to an e-mail Chris sent to Vivian Gee, by January 2010 his debt was around $3,500 and had apparently been higher at some point in the intervening time.

By that point, Chris's debt had gotten so out of hand that Bob was forced to step in, making Chris reduce and manage on his spending, and forcing Chris to make regular payments to pay off his outstanding debt. Chris, thoughtless and uninterested in the fact that unpaid credit card debt accrues severe interest, had historically made payments in the smallest installments possible.

At some point, Bob paid off Chris's credit card debt and took payment in installments out of the tugboat in compensation.[5] This foolish act of parental financial enabling allowed Chris to avoid the immediate consequences of his gross financial irresponsibility, and resulted in Chris learning nothing about how to manage his own finances, reinforcing Chris's attitude that he should be able to do anything that he wants and not suffer any negative consequences.

Not surprisingly, it only took Chris a few short months to land himself in more financial trouble. Chris had not only acquired a MasterCard charge account through Best Buy, but as of the second week of August 2010, Chris had predictably used it to land himself in yet more debt and had been laden with fees for bouncing a card payment.[6] Chris acquired the Best Buy charge card without his parents' permission; he only told them about it after receiving 2 bounced check fees that showed up on his bank statement, which his father was actively monitoring.[7] In true Chris fashion, he tried to repay the minimum balance each month. When he was forced to reveal the debt to his parents, Bob was obviously less than thrilled. He promptly took control of Chris's bank account as well as his credit cards. From that point until Bob's death, he received only an allowance in the form of Visa gift cards, leaving him unable to accrue any more debt for a short time.[8] At the time, the prospect of not being able to blow his welfare on frivolities stressed him out.

Curiously, even in his private communications with Jackie, Chris claimed that the overdraft fees that gave away the existence of the card to Bob were the work of trolls. Elsewhere in their conversations, however, he recounts other instances of "getting carried away" and accidentally overdrawing his bank account, suggesting that he was just using the trolls as a handy scapegoat for his own mistakes.

Bob, delusional and in the throes of some sort of conspiracy paranoia involving the staff and patrons of The GAMe PLACe, claimed that it was most likely Michael Snyder who had hacked Chris's credit card and checking accounts.[citation needed]

Bob probably salvaged Chris's credit rating when he paid off all his prior card debt at once, but he angrily claimed Chris ruined it with the Best Buy debt (certainly true), and, in disturbingly Chris-like fashion, seemed to use this damning information to try to make Chris's latest brush with the law seem "petty" in comparison.[citation needed]

After Bob's death, Chris took back control of his credit cards. As he learned nothing due to Bob's enabling, Chris quickly accrued more debt. Unverified information on Chris's credit card debt was leaked on the CWCki Forums on 4 June 2014. It was revealed that Chris had at least five active credit cards, with at least $7,600 in combined credit limit. Of the five known active cards, at least four were revealed to be maxed out, with at least $7400 in unpaid debt between the five cards. It was estimated that the minimum payment on Chris's known debt was at least $220 a month, and it was revealed that the only reason that Chris had been able to obtain the credit that he had was that, historically, he had almost always at least paid the minimum payment each month, although it was implied that he rarely if ever paid more than the minimum.[9]

In June 2016, Chris's got a credit limit raise from one of his credit cards. Chris immediately blew his "bonus" on Transformers only to later beg for money over Facebook while blaming his mother for "impulsively" spending more on their overdue bills than the minimum amount due.

  • Chris bragging about using his credit increase to buy Transformers.

  • Nine minutes later, Chris blaming his family's financial shortfalls on his mother's bill payments.

Nearing the end of the 2010s, Chris began to ignore his minimum debt payments, causing multiple collection agencies to file suit against him. Aly Hirschberg, a financial enabler, tried to help by sending Chris free money,[10] but Chris simply spent the money on entertainment such as printing up a line of personal TSSSF cards instead.

Payday loan

In early 2016, Arthur Spatchcock discovered that Chris had taken out a payday loan for $3,000.[11]

Chris "borrowed" three thousand dollars. What he did with it is hazy, sure, but how do you think he bought all those lego sets for Lego Dimensions?

A payday loan charges extremely high interest rates (usually at least 400%), which does not bode well for Chris, due to his habit of only paying back minimal amounts at a time.

Looking ahead

See also: Financhu Crisis, Future section

At present, Chris is basically immune to the consequences of his own debts. The monthly tugboat technically cannot be garnished, money from financial enablers is squirreled away in Paypal or spent too quickly for the court to note, and his debts are unsecured as he does not have collateral in his name (the Big Island, VA house is in the name of Caden).

See also

References

  1. ↑ December 2018 social media posts#Deep in debt
  2. ↑ 2.0 2.1 Other chats leaked by Naught (September 2020)#Debt hearing, toys, Merge
  3. ↑ Kiwi Farms posts (Null)#Correction to Reverse Mortgage Claim
  4. ↑ Kiwi Farms posts (The Captain)#Car Loan Creditor
  5. ↑ Jackie E-mails 6
  6. ↑ Matthew Noble call
  7. ↑ Jackie E-mails 7
  8. ↑ Jackie E-mails 8
  9. ↑ CWCki Forums posts (other users)#Chris and his finances: An in-depth review of his debt
  10. ↑ Aly Hirschberg DMs
  11. ↑ Kiwi Farms posts (MasterDisaster)#Payday Loan

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Money
Income
Problems
Debt  • Financhu Crisis (Timeline: 2016  • 2017  • 2018  • 2019  • 2020  • 2021)  • Welfare check
Expenditures
See also
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