Even though the troll behind Clyde had played multiple characters, this article primarily tackles Chris's interactions with the Clyde persona. All of Clyde's other personas are discussed towards the end of the article.
Note on Misinformation:
This article previously included information that was primarily speculative or incorrect. This is being fixed. For more information see here.
Note on Sockpuppets:
Clyde Cash has been known to use sockpuppet accounts. Since it is difficult to discern their sock accounts, it is best to avoid speculating an account belongs to Clyde Cash unless fully verified.
|Troll disclosure: This persona was created, appropriated, or otherwise used by trolls to manipulate Chris. He was played by the same person behind Gregg Mays, Vivian Gee, Bryan Bash, Mao Ling, and Shigeru Miyamoto.|
Though this identity is contrived, the CWCki may treat it as if it were a real identity because it was to Chris. (It's also funnier that way.)
|“||No, no! The goal is to make sure you never get laid. That is the goal of the Miscreants.||”|
|Clyde to Chris when introducing him to the Miscreants.|
|“||Yer butt's gonna be in trouble.||”|
|Barbara Chandler to Clyde Cash|
|Date of birth||July 4, 1976|
|Also known as||Gregg Mays|
Mr. Sin Dinero
|Known for||*Raping Pandahalo, and being happily married to her|
*Creating a forum full of fake female Sonichu fans
*Being the leader of the Miscreants
*Plotting to send hookers to Chris's house after Emily gets stolen by a man in a pickle suit
*Faking his death, and then returning to hack into Chris's PSN account.
|Organization||The Miscreants (founder, former leader)|
|Siblings||Ryan Cash (brother)|
|Other relatives||Vivian Gee (cousin)|
|Saga||Clyde Cash, PandaHalo, Miyamoto, Julie, PSN Hacking, Emily, Ivy, Tito, Jackie|
Clyde Cash (alias Gregg Mays – that's Gregg with three G's) (4 July 1976) was the ringleader of The Miscreants and is often considered to be Chris's arch-nemesis, even years after his trolling days were finished. In recent years, however, some have argued that people like the Idea Guys and Jacob Sockness have taken this position away from Clyde. Nonetheless, when people think of Chris Chan's greatest trolls, Clyde is usually chief among them, usually due to the sheer volume of videos that Chris made denouncing or threatening his Guido rival. Clyde, in turn, played up being a heel to Chris, presenting himself as a comically diabolical mastermind conspiring to inconvenience Chris wherever possible.
Ironically, despite Chris' constant demonizing of him, and his own approach to trolling as playing the role of the mustache-twirling, frat bro fiend, Clyde has warned him about several things that would later return to bite Chris in the ass, such as his unwillingness to work, spending habits, delusional thoughts and poor treatment of women. Clyde also successfully surmised that Chris had an innate desire to dress like a woman because he wanted to become one himself. Not all of Clyde's trolling was malicious, however; he also attempted to try to use his trolling attempts to get Chris to understand some unpleasant truths to help him understand the error of his ways, similarly to his Vivian Gee persona, but to no avail.
Multiple trolls (usually weens) utilized the alias of Clyde Cash during "Classic Era" of Christory, but the original found the most success in getting under Chris's skin. As mentioned above, the original troll behind the Clyde Cash persona was also involved with a variety of other personas dedicated to trolling Chris, and at least one was active at any given time prior to the disbanding of the Miscreants. Clyde and his various proxies retired following the death of Bob Chandler, with no clear word about where the original troll went.
The Clyde Cash saga is often considered one of the most memoriable to observers. This is in part due to the sheer amount of activity from the troll, and all of the ways that Chris reacted to Clyde's efforts. The Clyde Cash saga included Chris wishing physical harm on Clyde, several videos showing repeated attempts to blackmail him, a video where he compares his strength to the Twin Towers, videos involving the abuse of a clown doll, a video where Chris dons orange-brown face paint to impersonate his nemesis, the formation of a group whose sole purpose was to prevent Chris from getting a sweetheart, the stealing of several of Chris's potential sweethearts, and a few comic appearances as a chrome-domed villain with a jetpack.
According to an obituary detailing his supposed death, before becoming the guido nemesis of Chris, Clyde was a famed musician, creating music for his brother Ryan following his death. Clyde had also been known for many years to adopt children and raise them, especially when adoption rates were low.
Ryan Cash was the fictional brother of Clyde, who committed suicide when Chris announced there would be no comics released, witholding Sonichu 7, in protest of the Encyclopedia Dramatica page. He left the following note before killing himself:
|“||Dear family and friends, this is my final message to you, i am going to kill myself after my hero, christian weston chandler let me down. Sonichu was my hero and without anymore comics i will never be able to aspire to be just like him. i hate christian for deciding to not make any more comics and being lazy! all he does is play his stupid video game and not care about anything but himself! He's such a jerk! GOOD BYE FOREVER I HOPE TO SEE YOU IN HELL CHRIS. Ryan Cash.||”|
|A sad final farewell.|
Clyde was absolutely heartbroken upon discovering his brother's cadaver, and entered a state of depression. While Chris was upset by this news, due to his naïve understanding of the concept of death, his response to the news came across as condescending to a grieving Clyde, who was upset that the video wasn't dedicated to his brother, but various news items that were seemingly of more importance to Chris. The final straw was when Chris made a thoughtless comment indicating that he enjoyed having enough influence over someone that they could kill themselves after he took a course of action.
Following from Ryan's death, Clyde's grief transformed into righteous indignation, and he swore to avenge his fallen brother by setting himself on a path to become Chris's archnemesis, even if he had to become a monster to do so. Clyde achieved notoriety for his various trolling plans against Chris.
Rape of PandaHalo
The first plan involving the Clyde persona was to make Chris believe that Clyde had raped his current sweetheart, PandaHalo. Panda announced this revelation to Chris in an IRC chat, and told him that she was pregnant. In response, Clyde repeatedly called her a "liar." Despite Chris's initial shock of the revelation, he was still willing to forgive Clyde for this, and proposed that Panda get an abortion. Ultimately, Chris was unaffected by all of this and simply moved onto the next gal-pal. Chris believes that Clyde married Panda and had a "One Cent Daughter" named Penny.
- Main article: Sonichu Girls
Clyde also created a fake group of female Sonichu fans known as Sonichu Girls. This group was co-founded by Sarah May, who previously white-knighted Chris in IRC chats he had with Clyde, and another gal-pal named Cassie. The group was primarily made up of troll personas that were later used to catfish Chris, including Julie and Emily. Not much else is known about Clyde's involvement with the project, though the forum was later repurposed into a message board for trolls, many of whom were from the Miscreants.
Clyde once again baited and threatened Chris with Julie, a trollsona created by a 13-year-old troll that went by the name of BlueSpike. Bluespike had set up a Mumble chat in which Chris could communicate with TRUE and HONEST Sonichu fans. He also operated under two aliases, "Julie" and "Max" Milvana, two siblings who came from the nation of Molvania, luring Chris into various trolling plans with the Julie character, and threatening Julie with the Max character.
Clyde stalked Julie while infiltrating the Mumble chats to confront Chris. He began throwing demands to Chris such as cleaning his room or threatening Chris that he will harm Julie, unless he admits that he's gay, leading to unexpected results. Chris at the same time also bought SonichuandRosechu.com. Clyde got access yet again, this time with the help of BlueSpike.
Clyde later acted as the founder and original leader of a made up group called "the Miscreants", a group of people who trolled Chris from early 2009 to 2011, terminating the group following Bob's death. Clyde has claimed the original purpose of the group was to prevent Chris from finding a boyfriend-free girl. Supposedly being a group that's been around since ancient times, they also claimed to be resposible for many of Chris's past misfortunes, prophesizing that a man dressed as a pickled cucumber would steal one of his sweethearts.
When it was announced that Max had kidnaped Julie, Clyde later claimed on 24 February 2009 that he had plans to send Julie off to China in 9 hours, to which Chris responded that he would make his way to Ohio to save her. Of course, this effort proved fruitless, as the address he was given belonged to a rundown house owned by an elderly lady.
After tinkering with the new Max character, BlueSpike prompted Chris to do things like shoving pieces of his medallion up his ass, and telling him to say the word "niggers". This prompted Clyde to kick BlueSpike out of the Miscreants. In Chris's revised Encyclopedia Dramatica page, Clyde is referred to as a "Starscream troll". This is a reference to the Transformers character Starscream, who would often switch sides or plot to overthrow Megatron behind the scenes. Chris says this because he believes Clyde had killed BlueSpike after he had been kicked out of the Miscreants.
Church Audio and The Hooker Incident
During Chris's short break from the Internet, Clyde sent out his trusted Man in the Pickle Suit to scout out Chris's whereabouts. The MIPS turned Robert Simmons V into a troll and infiltrated Wesley Memorial United Methodist Church. From this, both MIPS and Robert discovered several more details about Chris's personal life, such as citing Family Guy as evidence that homosexuality is sinful, and that Rocky Shoemaker had encouraged him to continue reading How to Talk to Girls.
Chris later went on a date with Emily at the Charlottesville Fashion Square. The MIPS then stole her from Chris, which then prompted Emily to declare to Chris that she would live with Clyde instead of him, and for Chris to publicly declare the MIPS's association with Clyde. Clyde later claimed responsibility for the failed date in a call with Chris which followed soon after providing him with a group of "escorts" to help him with his Love Quest.
Harassment of Ivy
When Ivy came along, Clyde decided to continually harass her. He leaked information regarding her, which provoked Chris to threaten him. Despite this, Ivy eventually gave in and rumors circulated about her killing herself.
On 22 May 2009, Clyde faked his death by self-inflicted shotgun wound to the head. This was later reported by The Miscreants. After Clyde faked his death for reasons unknown, he came back with a vengeance a week later. Chris wasn't very pleased, as he had discovered that Clyde had made two purchases totalling at $15.98 after hacking into his PSN account.  Chris attempted to contact Vivian Gee in order for her to pay back these transactions, but she claimed that she couldn't afford it. Ironically, a new foe would outperform Clyde in hacking into the account. By this point, Clyde was relatively dormant, and less active with Chris, only popping up occasionally. Despite this, Chris continually challenged Clyde to face him, and often blamed him for many of the misfortunes that followed.
In late 2009, when not battling Liquid Chris for the hand of Kacey, Chris spent his time trying to convince Clyde Cash, alias Gregg Mays (or "Gregg Mays, alias Clyde Cash," depending on which name he remembers first) to face him in a one on one battle. Chris has recorded several feats of strength through a combination of Kacey trying to get him to get into shape and a desire to frighten Clyde with his bulging muscles.
However, because of the negative reaction to Sonichu Special #4, Chris, in the CWCipedia mailbag, made clear that he would only sit and talk cooperatively with Clyde to get him to stop harassing him.
Despite Clyde's inactivity, he remained a common scapegoat of Chris's. For example, Chris directed blame at Clyde in December of that year when he discovered an interactive billboard that used a photoshopped image of him at a gay bar. Chris however later outed Thorg for this endeavor during the Calling Out saga.
Eventually, Chris decided to revisit his old nemesis in 2010, believing he was the reason why he lost the heart of "The Wallflower". In it, he is shown fighting Clyde, then pulling a knife and slitting Clyde's throat as a warning to all trolls.
In another well-thought counter-trolling plan, Chris unsuccessfully attempted to scam Clyde into paying Chris $9,001 for destroying his own PS3. This almost fail-proof scheme was however foiled thanks to Surfshack Tito's vigilance.
Chris fights back
At this point Clyde had raped PandaHalo, threatened many of his other gal-pals, and has been a general nuisance to Chris; Chris tried to fight back against Clyde every time Clyde intruded into his life.
|“||EEEEEEENNNNNNNNGH GON' SSSSSTRANGLE THAT CLYDE CASH! I will PAUNCH HIS LIGHTS OUT!||”|
|Chris threatening Clyde Cash|
Like many trolls that Chris perceived as his enemy, Clyde was the subject of many threats of violence and death threats from Chris. Though, in comparison to how he's responded to other trolls, Chris appeared to be far more vitriolic towards Clyde; Chris was explicit about his desire to murder the troll. Chris stated a desire to do such things as strangle him, "punch his lights out", or "shove his ass down his throat" to "make him eat his underwear". Thankfully, Chris's threats to carry out these heinous acts never escalated to actual attempts.
Chris made use of an old Clown Doll, treating it as an object to release his anger towards Clyde on. Chris filmed himself beating up the doll repeatedly, occasionally putting what he presumed to be Clyde's face over it. He attempted to tear up the doll repeatedly, but only managed to tear off its hat with his teeth. 
Upon Clyde's return, Chris declared that he would one day confront Clyde in a fight. Chris also tried to make Clyde appear weak in comparison to himself in several videos; in one instance claiming that Clyde is Weaker than Water. Chris called Clyde out about the rape of PandaHalo a year after the fact in a YouTube video when he came to believe that Clyde was responsible for the Wallflower leaving him. In that video, Chris pretended to beat up, choke, and then slit the throat of Clyde directly after he insulted him.
Attempted Doxing and Blackmailing
Throughout their encounters, aside from threatening physical violence on him, Chris also attempted to fight Clyde by threatening that he would uncover his true identity, blackmail him, and report him to authorities, a tactic which he had attempted several times after Clyde's return.
In the video "Secret Weapon", Chris claimed to have aqcuired the mugshot of Clyde, which is actually a photograph of Lee Hotti given to him by the troll lordsillynipples. Chris used the photo to reperesent Clyde in various videos where he threatens beating him up, typically placing it over the aforementioned clown doll, the first instance of which he actually uploaded a few hours before he declared unveiling Clyde's identiy. A former troll-turned-white-knight informed him a month later that the picture he was given was not that of Clyde. Despite it not actually being Clyde, the picture was circulated ironically, treating it as the true picture of Clyde, and the image soon became a primary representation associated with the troll.
In another video, Chris once again claimed that he was able to figure out Clyde's true identity. In the video, Chris claimed that Clyde is actually a little kid who attends an elementary school in Frankfurt, Kentucky. Despite this, Chris still threatened Clyde by telling others to report him to the Frankfurt police. Chris previously claimed that Clyde was actually a minor in other videos, including one where he mocked Clyde by singing over the Coolio and Kylian Mash song Gangsta's Paradise.
Sometime before 25 October 2009, Chris obtained an alleged photo of Clyde Cash straddling a man in a Spider-Man costume. In several videos, Chris hinted at possessing the photo to intimidate Clyde by using a cropped version of the image to represent Clyde. Chris threatened to blackmail Clyde by releasing the full image, uncovering it bit by bit, unless he left him alone, and he reveals his true identity by a deadline, while also referring to the costumed man as the "itsy-bitsy spider". In one particular video trolls persuaded him to make, Chris attempted to humiliate both Clyde and Jack Thaddeus, calling both of them weak by having this image take the place of the Twin Towers. Clyde did not stop, but Chris never returned the favor.
Chris has stated in a few instances that he was willing to sit down and talk with Clyde cooperatively, but only if he chooses to stop harassing him, and declares Sonichu as his own work.
|“||I would say the parts where I communicate with him; similar to a father-and-son conversation. You may, As Long As you make the written reference to me as Sonichu's original creator with a statement like, "Sonichu and all related material was originally created by Christian Weston Chandler." I would maintain a pleasant conversation, with hopes of it not turning into an abusive conflict; I would not hit back unless he hit me first.||”|
Calling Out and Insults
|“||Hey, at least my head's not fucking orange. Like a certain...cashy type person I know.||”|
|Chris randomly calling out Clyde Cash in a video where he mimes making spaghetti.|
Chris also called Clyde out on the various trolling plans that he had for him.
In other instances, Chris resorted to insulting his enemy by mocking his apperance. One example of this is in a video where he paints his face orage, attempts to copy Clyde's stylistic hairstyle, and his mannerisms. In that video he called Clyde out all of the harm he has done on him, including the rape of PandaHalo, and the supposed spreading of rumors to defame Chris. Another example is in a video where Chris is asked by Jackie to cook spaghetti in a video. Towards the end of the video, he clearly has made microwaved spaghetti and meatballs, which he then proceeds to stick his face into, giving his face an orange-ish color. Chris remarks on this by mocking Clyde's apperance, saying how his face isn't "fuck'n orange".
In the comic
Despite his prominence as the leader of the trolls and being the frequent object of Chris's scorn in his videos, Clyde's overall presence in the winding narrative of the comic is surprisingly smaller than one might think. In the context of the story, Cly(de) is just another villain working for Mary Lee Walsh. Given that his first appearance in a music video was illustrated well before Chris discovered the photograph of Lee Hotti that he mistook for Clyde Cash's true appearance, Cly is portrayed as a bald, red-eyed baddie with no beard and fair skin instead of a freckled, tanned dudebro with spiky hair, a headband, and a very thin beard across his chin. He also has a fabulous purple cape and a dapper suit underneath, rather than typical Guido attire. Cly also has a jetpack, which he uses to regain his bearings after being hit with a Curse-ye-ha-me-ha attack. Strangely, Chris did not update the character's design in his few subsequent appearances after he discovered the "truth" of the master troll's appearance, or much later, when he drew a commission of himself making peace with the troll.
Apart from capturing Ivy and getting into a fight with Chris, he initially only appeared on CWC Music Video Holding Out For a Hero, officially Sonichu Special #1. Not much is known about Clyde, other than he lives in a mansion and owns a slander ray and a pickle gun (which allows him to technically represent The Man in the Pickle Suit). He made his first appearance in the comic proper Sonichu #10 as the 4-cent_garbage.com building is collapsing. When Jason Kendrick Howell escapes, he condemns Clyde and Jack Thaddeus for being homo trolls. When Beel escapes, he too condemns the two for their actions, saying that being homo trolls that are "slandering and tarnishing an innocent man's good name" is just as evil as being an assistant for Adolf Hitler. With no option left, Clyde and Jack jump into the 66+6-story elevator shaft to their deaths. Judging by Chris's commission, however, the death did not stick, although Cly no longer serves as an antagonistic force in the winding narrative.
The last time Clyde interacted with Chris was during Chris's campaign for Alex's Lemonade Stand, where Clyde donated $10 dollars and shockingly commended Chris for doing something selfless for once. Notably, the comment on the Alex's Lemonade Stand page was the only time that Clyde interacted with Chris after the death of his father, as he and several other Miscreants had agreed to leave Chris alone when they decided that Chris had suffered enough, and that trolling him wasn't fun anymore. At some point after this, Clyde Cash felt that his brother Ryan had been sufficiently avenged, so he retired and moved back to New Jersey where he, his wife Sarah, and their daughter Penny could watch the sun rise over a grateful universe. He has not been seen on the internet, or at least Chris's corner of it, since then.
Chris, surprisingly, has forgiven Clyde for what he has done, or at least he's stopped caring. In 2014, Chris drew art of him and Clyde making peace as part of a commission, albeit with both parties doing so somewhat begrudgingly. Notably, Chris completely screws up Clyde's height, making him appear to be much shorter than he was in the pages of the comic.
In the September 2020 Discord Q&A 4, Chris said that of all the trolls, the one he would want to meet the most is the person behind Clyde Cash (and, by extension, Vivian Gee, Mao, Gregg Mays, and Shigeru Miyamoto).
The original troll behind the Clyde persona had also created a number of other aliases, all of which were intended for entirely different trolling plans involving Chris. Many of the conflicts that involved Clyde also involved these other personas.
- Main article: Vivian Gee
Vivian Gee, a fictional cousin of Clyde, was the first of several personas created by the troll behind Clyde,[note 1] even predating the Clyde persona itself. Vivian's earliest known interaction with Chris was on 4 November 2007, in which she e-mailed him, claiming to be the original creator of Sonichu. Following from that, Vivian tried to "help" Chris, suggesting that he destroy his medallion.
Vivian had also created the Sonichu Audiobooks, and other pieces of media that reference Chris. Continuing on her endevor to "help" Chris, she wrote a novel for a contest which revolved around Chris ruling world, hoping that this would help him see the error of his ways. After Clyde's alleged death, Vivian took his place as the leader of the Miscreants. When the Clyde persona left in 2011, the Vivian persona left along with it.
Vivian was also the subject of death threats as extreme as the ones Chris issued to Clyde.
- Main article: Bryan Bash
Bryan Bash was a good friend of Clyde's and was an agent of the Miscreants. He sent several hookers following a date with Emily gone wrong, part of an attempt from Clyde to help Chris. Bryan also provided leaks of calls, videos, chats, and drawings that Chris had made to the Miscreants.
"Gregg Mays" was originally intended to be the name of a person entirely different from Clyde, a web designer working for Nintendo. The Gregg Mays character was part of a plan to hack into sonichu.net, having promised Chris that the website would be redesigned to promote Sonichu for Animal Crossing. Gregg asked Chris for both his username and password for his Tripod account in order to adapt a new "system" for the website, which Chris promptly gave him. Gregg then hacked into the website. Gregg then told Chris to make a video to proclaim that he was straight in exchange for regaining control of the website.
Even after Clyde spelled it out to Chris that "Gregg" was an alias of his, and that he was not Jason Kendrick Howell, Chris still believed it was Jason who hacked into the website. He sent a message to Clyde while thinking he was Jason, wishing him harm. Chris also came to believe "Gregg Mays" to be the actual name of the troll who played the Clyde persona. Ironically, despite realizing that Gregg was a troll persona, he was still under the belief that he was actually being contacted by Nintendo staff.
Other Nintendo Staff
The troll behind Clyde also roleplayed as Nintendo staff besides Gregg. These staff members were Shigeru Miyamoto, Reggie Fils-Aimé, Takashi Tezuka, and James Zylberstein.
It was around this time that Takashi Tezuka and Jay Z were doing their Animal Crossing game project. Clyde then decided to make things more interesting and posed as Shigeru Miyamoto to destroy any chance of the project. [note 2] Shigeru engaged with Chris in a series of emails, discussing the possibility of turning Sonichu into a video game franchise for the Nintendo platform.
Mao "Bamboo" Ling was the founder of Asperpedia, as well as one of the Asperpedia Four.
|Christian Weston Chandler kills Clyde Cash.|
|Stardate||12 October 2009|
|Subject Matter||Clyde Cash|
|Video Type||Edited game cutscene|
|Other Info||Clyde Cash's demise.|
|TRUE and HONEST Sonichu Fan Videos|
|Clyde Cash (Amputated Cut)|
|Stardate||13 July 2021|
|Made By||Kenny Blades|
|Subject Matter||Clyde Cash|
|Video Type||Rap dedicated to Clyde|
|TRUE and HONEST Sonichu Fan Videos|
- When Clyde had revealed that he had created Sonichu Girls, he used his "vivitheg" screen name, while also calling himself Clyde.
- When Clyde edited the page regarding the e-mails he sent to Chris as Miyamoto, he annotated many parts of the page with red quoteboxes, as several of the e-mails were lost. The edit can be seen here.
- Mumble 9
- The Hooker Incident
- Secret Weapon
- Chris Calls Clyde Out
- (Clyde's) Trollsta's Paradise
- Chris chan (CWCipedia)#Sex Life
- Jackie Chat 7
- File:Clyde Cash obituary.png
- IRC (21 January 2009)
- Wayback Machine Link to Clyde admitting to creating Sonichu Girls
- IRC (20 January 2009)
- Clyde E-mails#February 24, 2009
- Julie Reveals Herself
- Mumble 12
- Church Audio
- Emily Date Conversation Transcript
- Hooker incident
- CWC "Boyfriend"
- Vivian Gee E-mails, 2009#29 May
- Mailbag 5
- 20 December 2009
- Calling Out "Thorg" - Jeremy
- CWC Update!!!!! 27 March 2009
- Sign Destruction Video
- Challenge for Clyde
- Take that Page DOWN NOW!
- White knight E-mails#17 April 2009 — Harbal
- Clyde Cash the kid video
- Clyde E-mails#Hi, Clyde — October 25, 2009
- To Clyde Gregg
- Clyde E-mails#Hi, Clyde — October 25, 2009
- Kiwi Farms posts (Marvin)#Troll-Scripted Content
- ClydeGoingOnGregg1, Clyde's Buddy Matt Getting SUPER-LAID!!!, Clyde is Weaker than Water, Getting Foam Ed, Twin Falling Towers, It will never end, Apology for 9/11 Joke
- 100 2267
- Discord Q&A 4#Which troll would you meet?
- CWCki Forums posts (Marvin)#Vivian Was Clyde
- CWCki Forums posts (Marvin)#Clyde History
- Vivian Gee E-mails, 2007-2008
- Gregg Mays E-mails
- Gregg Mays E-mails#It is I, Jason Kendrick Howell! If you ever want to see your beloved site restored, you must meet my demands. — January 12, 2009
- Gregg Mays E-mails#January 17, 2009
- Miyamoto emails#5 January 2009 to 10 January 2009: Chris is Invited to Redmond
|Clyde Cash Saga|
|Ryan's Death:||Chris vs. Clyde:||Clyde's Return:||Spider-Man Blackmail:||Vivian Gee:|